[SPOILERS] Stormblood Ending

[_Koneko_]

Retaking is a city is never bloodless how many people do you think died off-screen so you could have your moment of glory sure you and the main characters have plot shield but how many grand company soldiers and civilians perished so you could play the hero just because se don't remind you of the pile of bodies your standing on don't mean it's not there sure you didn't directly kill them but they still died because of you the real hypocrisy is claiming innoence the price of war is blood your the one leading this charge the blood of those that follow or are caught in the crossfire are ultimately on your hands

ok real life .. huh let's make this situation you fight a war and are hailed as a great hero and go to heaven and the clerk tells you because you murdered all those people your going straight to hell would you feel very heroic in the end people should be honest with them selves murder is murder don't matter if you do in the name of justice or cold blood it's ultimately a crime

[Cilia]

---

I got tired of the Empire debate myself, and just went for the most focal thing irritating me: the disregard for in-game canon because it's "politically spun," even though if you read into it a bit and examine Lolorito's character there's no reason to distrust his word in that instance. (Not that Lolorito has ever lied at all to my knowledge, but I digress.) Hopefully Hancock comes forth and confirms firsthand.

As for the DRK issue, I was on the wrong train of thought. It's not people we feel guilty or responsible for the deaths of, it's people who antagonized us but we nonetheless felt sympathy for on some level. Rhitahtyn was honorable to a fault, Livia was a broken war orphan, Ilberd was a desperate refugee, the Heavens' Ward were all blessed (tempered) by Thordan, and the Warriors of Darkness were fighting to save their world. Ystride was used against Sid and Rielle because Myste knew that she would terrify Rielle into inaction and Sid was in too bad a shape to beat her on his own.

Myste's modus operandi changes during the 70 quest. Beforehand he had been summoning memory ghosts to bring closure in an attempt to assuage his (your) guilt; during the 70 quest he makes his intention to replace reality with a false world of memory ghosts clear. The point of most of the previous quests, Lowdy's in particular, was to show that no matter how tender or exquisite a lie may be, it is still a lie, which is why you and Fray went against Myste.

Anyway, let's entertain the notion of the Warrior of Light being a psychopath. There are three criteria for judging this:

Boldness. Psychopaths are fearless and will, without hesitation, do whatever they want. The Warrior of Light is brave, but has been shown to fear in the past - when Bismarck is about to eat your island if you fail the Limitless Blue, when Zenos is about to kill you during "The Time Between the Seconds," etc. There's also the implicit fear of losing the Scions, who have in effect become a surrogate family to the Warrior of Light.

Disinhibition. Unless you waste all your gil on pointless glamour crap, this is unlikely. The Warrior of Light has been shown to inhibit his/her desires in the past - not killing foes who stand down, avoiding pointless bloodshed when we can, etc. We show great restraint in not just running around killing anyone and everyone we want to, as well.

Meanness. Ah, no. Exact opposite, actually. It's easy to forget after all the big battles and grand proclamations, but the Warrior of Light is a humble, kind, and charitable person who helps most anyone who asks for it. We even helped a wounded Garlean soldier in the wake of the incident at Specula Imperatoris, to his own amazement.

Warrior of Light ain't a psycho. Zenos, on the other hand...

[Theodric]

To be fair, the Warrior of Light and many of his allies are canonically shown to smile, cheer and show pleasure when faced with the prospect of taking the fight to not only the Garleans but certain other individuals and factions as well. He is by no means on the same level as Zenos but at the same time he isn't exactly opposed to doing some very dubious things such as infusing a weapon with the aether/souls of slain combatants. Of course, that may be brushed off as 'not a big deal' but I bet the shoe would be on a different foot if Garlemald happened to be confirmed to be doing similar things...

At the end of the day if we consider every side quest as 'canon' - and I see no reason not to do so - then there's definitely shady elements such as the above scenario to consider.

[Cilia]

---

I don't know what world you live in, but we didn't assault Doma or Ala Mhigo for the glory of it. We did it to repatriate the Domans and Ala Mhigans, who had their homes taken from them in bloody wars of conquest for no reason 25 and 20 years ago, respectively, and whose populace had lived in poverty and terror since. The Empire had done nothing to improve their lives, and other than the Skulls literally all the natives living in the then-provinces hated the Empire's guts.

As for the other bit?

[T]oday will not be the day [of my reckoning], and you will not be the judge!

To be fair, the Warrior of Light and many of his allies are canonically shown to smile, cheer and show pleasure when faced with the prospect of taking the fight to not only the Garleans but certain other individuals and factions as well. He is by no means on the same level as Zenos but at the same time he isn't exactly opposed to doing some very dubious things such as infusing a weapon with the aether/souls of slain combatants. Of course, that may be brushed off as 'not a big deal' but I bet the shoe would be on a different foot if Garlemald happened to be confirmed to be doing similar things...

At the end of the day if we consider every side quest as 'canon' - and I see no reason not to do so - then there's definitely shady elements such as the above scenario to consider.

We don't smile or show pleasure at the thought of fighting (killing) anyone. We do it as a measure of reassurance to others that we'll accomplish our mission and make it back safely - and perhaps to reassure ourselves that we can make it. That doesn't mean we have to kill enemies - they always have the option of pulling back, not fighting to the death, surrendering, etc. We never cheer before a fight - and not always after, such as with Hypertuned Grynewaht and Edda.

We've killed some Imperials for a better weapon to defend hearth and home with. Zenos instigated rebellions because he was bored and wanted to fight somebody. The Empire dropped a moon on Eorzea because it was the easiest solution for getting rid of the native beast tribes and their primals.

One is very shady. One is selfish and bloody. One is an unnecessary, utter atrocity.

There's a very early side quest in the Peaks, where you go talk to a woman. She says she aches, and if she just had these three things from the local fauna, she could make a tea to help alleviate it. So you go get the items she needs. When you get back she's astonished you did so, since the Empire has made it a de facto rule that you can't help her because she's too old and infirm to work, so it doesn't see the value in keeping her alive.

... to say the Warrior of Light is no better than Zenos or the Empire is nonsense.

...!

[Theodric]

We've killed some Imperials for a better weapon to defend hearth and home with.

No. They were deliberately hunted down, killed and had their very aether and souls transferred into a weapon. A weapon that was then used to kill other Imperials - which could very well have been friends and/or family members of those horrifically reduced to nothing more than extra power for a weapon of mass destruction. Eorzea isn't even the Warrior of Light's home, anyway. He just happens to have aligned himself with factions that focus almost entirely upon it.

If a Garlean had cut down Lyse, transferred her life force into a gunblade and then used that power to put down Thancred the narrative would be very different no matter how it ended up being used.

Thankfully Zenos is not entirely representative of Garlemald as he openly denounced it through both his own words and his own actions. His father, too, wrote him off as a monster.

It's also not a competition as to which side is 'worse'. What matters in the context of the discussion is that both sides have crossed lines and neither has the moral high ground. It would be a different matter entirely if one side had been presented as having absolutely no redeeming qualities but that isn't the case at all and is only relevant for individuals such as Zenos who...aren't actually serving Garlemald but themselves.

[_Koneko_]

exactly Theodric to many paint the wol as good when that was never the case the wol has done some truely aweful things lets see another person who went around stuffing souls into their sword ... oh wait wow's lich king well he was totally a good guy right

As for not for glory when was liberating cities our job we're primal hunters leave the crap to the grand companies but apperently without the warrior of light the grand companies are so incomptent that their barely better then the resistence how are this people not conqurered yet ... the scions are awefully quick to voluenter while supposely being neutral

[NoblePigeon]

No. They were deliberately hunted down, killed and had their very aether and souls transferred into a weapon. A weapon that was then used to kill other Imperials - which could very well have been friends and/or family members of those horrifically reduced to nothing more than extra power for a weapon of mass destruction. Eorzea isn't even the Warrior of Light's home, anyway. He just happens to have aligned himself with factions that focus almost entirely upon it.

If a Garlean had cut down Lyse, transferred her life force into a gunblade and then used that power to put down Thancred the narrative would be very different no matter how it ended up being used.

Thankfully Zenos is not entirely representative of Garlemald as he openly denounced it through both his own words and his own actions. His father, too, wrote him off as a monster.

It's also not a competition as to which side is 'worse'. What matters in the context of the discussion is that both sides have crossed lines and neither has the moral high ground. It would be a different matter entirely if one side had been presented as having absolutely no redeeming qualities but that isn't the case at all and is only relevant for individuals such as Zenos who...aren't actually serving Garlemald but themselves.

Woah. It's almost like, the Empire has no business to be in Eorzea, and their government is much more at fault for sending conscripted soldiers to die in their name in a foreign land, and not the WoL or native Eorzeans defending themselves from an aggressive, imperialist power!

[Alleo]

To be fair, the Warrior of Light and many of his allies are canonically shown to smile, cheer and show pleasure when faced with the prospect of taking the fight to not only the Garleans but certain other individuals and factions as well.

I would call this being human. It might not be the nicest reaction but if someone has done horrible things and other stuff and you can finally arrest them or defeat them, some might just be happy about this. Also again none of those are innocent so we are nowhere near people like Yotsuyu. (Also we only truly cheer after the end of an dungeon which is mostly against beast..and we do not cheer in each one, sometimes we even look sad)

The problem with stuff like the relic weapon is that its first seen as no big deal in the game itself (which I do find strange) and not everyone does it anyway. Also does that mean that all the stuff we did with Hildibrand is completely canon too? Or the event quest where we visited a certain floor?

In the end nobody says that the WoL is a taint-less little angel. They surely had to kill people (but no innocent civilian) and some quests are not that morally right but again its nowhere near as harsh as quite some foes showed.

exactly Theodric to many paint the wol as good when that was never the case the wol has done some truely aweful things lets see another person who went around stuffing souls into their sword ... oh wait wow's lich king well he was totally a good guy right

As for not for glory when was liberating cities our job we're primal hunters leave the crap to the grand companies but apperently without the warrior of light the grand companies are so incomptent that their barely better then the resistence how are this people not conqurered yet ... the scions are awefully quick to voluenter while supposely being neutral

Yeah lets only look at the theoretically bad stuff the horrible WoL did and completely oversee all the good stuff they have done...The relic weapon is one case of a bad moral decision and even one case which not everyone even goes through since its optional. Yet somehow this makes the WoL as bad as someone like Zenos or Yotsuyu that slay people for the laughs or simply because they are bored?

We are at first adventurers and as such we are free to join a war or not..the WoL of the story wanted to join it, because they saw it as the right thing to do. Also friends of the WoL are fighting in this too and we see the horrible lives of the Ala Mhigo people. It is dangerous for us to go into human war because we are the only thing left between the Ascians and Hydaelyn but we do have a lot of power and if we can use that power to help people then it would be worse if we would just ignore it.

Also lets not forget that we did not go and conquered a city that was never part of Eorzea or something, no we took back a city that was forced under the Garlean rule. Thats a big difference.

Anyway see the WoL as you want, it does not change the fact that we do lots of very good things for Eorzea too and that we have a reason to be called a hero.

[Kallera]

Wait a minute, we were not "free to join the war or not." Hell some soldiers threaten to gut you for not joining their patrols. At any rate, there wasn't a choice provided by the game.

[Draginhikari]

I'm not even sure I would use the Zodiac Brave storyline as an example of anything. The Relic/Anima quests seem to be written in a way that completely detached from the actual plot, the story surrounding it is just a series of excuses for the reasons you are being asked to grind excessively.

Wait a minute, we were not "free to join the war or not." Hell some soldiers threaten to gut you for not joining their patrols. At any rate, there wasn't a choice provided by the game.

Well that just kind of comes with the nature of how the linear nature of FFXIV story happens to work. They give dialogue options in that direction, an illusion of the choice since if your not going to engage in the war there would really be no point in playing the game. It's just mostly there to give a minor add on to the story rather then being an actual choice.