I do not have a "Main" I want to gear all jobs, change weekly gatings?

[Snow_Princess]

What high horse? There is literally nothing stopping people from doing the same things I did. Instead of looking at how much better person xyz has it, how about cultivating that for yourself? That was the crux of my post, which you seemingly missed. Will it work out immediately. Nope. It didn't for me either. You just keep going and you'll eventually meetpeople you mesh with. You're the one trying to make it seem like there is a divide. You may have issues with progression, but I don't. That has nothing to do with my purported "castle." I simply don't cling to the notion you can only do content with the best gear.

The person you are quoting is fully correct and you are clearly reflecting such divide you claim does not exist. You are not seeing other people's wants and needs past your own and why Eclipsed said these discussions do not end well.

I do not want to be stuck on one job anymore, we got 2 new jobs, and one of those does not really share gear with the others, at least in an indirect way.

A lot of caster gear is DH/spell speed, that is not RDM gear, I do not want to invest my little cap gear in that when I feel it is not worth enough to invest in. Should I want to invest in RDM, it is going to be geared differently then BLM. I am not sure what SMN is anymore and in its current state, it has less appeal to me then BLM does.

When you have a game handing out EXP exponentially faster then before, you are going to have more people wanting to gear more then one thing. (even more so when changes to someone's prime job is detrimental to a person's play style, they are going to need to experiment more and take more time what they want to do) These caps are pointless if you are going to claim "You do not need the gear" then it is a question why does the gear exist in the first place? How does it harm you if someone gets something in 1 day then you in a week? Without these caps you do not feel forced to log in everyday, increasing burn out.

Claim:
Having caps help people keep up with people that have more time to play.
Me:
false, if someone has limited time to play, and end up not capping, or missing a day, they are forever behind. People should be free to play when they want, how often they want to get what they want. This was the basis of changing the EXP weekly caps, and people mass complained about that, and I do not understand people supporting this kind of gating, when it is worse then the 1.0 gating.

Me:
Having caps is detrimental to those that want to gear different jobs or does not fall on a "main"
Counter:
None, all replies to this was off my point.

Me: The gating has gone long enough, fine to try out for a first time but not several times (the same cap amounts) over 3 expansions, it is time to change reskining things over and over with new level caps.

counter:
That is how things have been done and people have no issue with it so they are going to keep doing it.

[Felis]

I'm against removing the tome caps to "gearing up" all jobs, because that sound more like overgearing all jobs.

Now to the real gearing up all jobs without removing the tome cap.
What we need first is a table about what content drop what ilevel and what the average time is for that (queue time not included)
Then the OP have to tell us what the highest minimum ilevel is from the contents he want to do (Savage included or excluded?)

If we have all those data we can begin to do the math about what combination of content gear is the fastest way to fullfill the wanted minimum ilevel

A lot of caster gear is DH/spell speed, that is not RDM gear, I do not want to invest my little cap gear in that when I feel it is not worth enough to invest in. Should I want to invest in RDM, it is going to be geared differently then BLM. I am not sure what SMN is anymore and in its current state, it has less appeal to me then BLM does.

Removing tome cap to overgear the RDM with tome gear will not help here, only mixing gears from different sources with the wanted secondary stats.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

People have spelled this out in numerous ways. Devoid of a cap, people will inevitably grind only tomestone gear because it's the best option available to them. They may not do it week one, but it will happen. It already did with Verity. Let's go down the list, shall we? Assume Creation gear is entirely uncapped.

- Why run Omega normal more then once when the gear is RNG based and inferior?
- Why purchase or make crafted gear when no matter the melds you choose, it'll be inferior?
- Why run Ivalice multiple times when the 330 gear is RNG based and people will have had three months to obtain uncapped tomestone gear?
- Why continuous run roulettes after you've obtained all the Creation gear you fancy, which will happen significantly faster?

I see what you or they are purposing, but you aren't seeing the opposing side and how it renders a massive portion of gear obsolete. In fact, it makes 4.1 entirely pointless since we wouldn't need a catch up patch. You also seemingly refuse to acknowledge you can readily switch jobs and still complete content, including Savage. Furthermore, as Hyomin pointed, statics generally have you playing roles. My static wouldn't want me to suddenly switch from a melee DPS to a caster just because I felt like it. That is community enforced, and you'll be hard pressed finding groups willing to expect you changing jobs on a whim.

[YitharV2]

Make a poll, how meany people play just because their friends do vs the game itself? Has nothing to do with gating helping their subs. People play because they are invested with the time spent in the game and their friends, not on the fact of repeated gating.

I guarantee you gating is not helping SE to keep people subbed. The server I am on is proof. People want to RP, Rp with their friends, and this one became the unofficial server for that. The biggest server for FFXIV was built on "I want to play with my friends"

I'm just saying, from SE's point of view, if this were really a problem, they would change it. I don't deny that people do play to have fun with their friends. That's the only thing that was keeping me playing as well. However, if you could gear up super quickly, I have no doubt that the no-lifers would gear up extremely fast and then quit, unless they have something else to do in-game with their friends. That's what I mean by gating making more money for SE. A lot of people are motivated by the carrot on the stick is what I'm saying. And as Bourne_Endeavor said, it encourages players to find other ways of getting gear, like running normal or 24-man raids or crafting.

Note that I'm not necessarily agreeing with SE's decision, just that I think they have basis for making things the way they are. If they've been doing it for the past 4 years and it's been working, why would they change it up now?

[Skivvy]

Yep. I mentioned earlier, I did V1-3 Savage with half Verity gear. A smoother run though doesn't mean tomestones should be unlocked so you can bounce jobs at your leisure. That would just result in everyone having everything within a month ala Verity gear.

That isn't absolutes. Verity is proof the moment you uncap tomestones, people will grind them. A month isn't an incredible pace either, hence why so many have Verity gear now. The cap exists for the reasons already stated; to keep people doing content. The devs want players like me to queue into roulettes 3-4 months from now when I normally wouldn't. They want me queuing into Leveling roulette so people aren't waiting, which I wouldn't do if I could grind tomestones earlier. Jumping ahead to 4.1, why are people going to run Ivalice multiple times when they already have equivalent or better gear? They aren't. Just like crafted gear and Omega normal, Ivalice would be dying content practically when it released since it's gear drops would be meaningless.

For the record, "everyone and everything" are most definitely absolutes. Also, what proof do you have that everyone would just grind creation tomes? Does everyone in game already have full sets of verity gear for all jobs?

Unless things have changed drastically, this game has mostly 'casual' players. This is based on past census results from SE which showed an abysmal clear % for Savage raids. If the tomes cap were to be removed, there is a good chance most people would probably continue on at their pace, while those looking for the added flexibilty and freedom will finally be able to gear how they want.

[Snow_Princess]

People have spelled this out in numerous ways. Devoid of a cap, people will inevitably grind only tomestone gear because it's the best option available to them. They may not do it week one, but it will happen. It already did with Verity. Let's go down the list, shall we? Assume Creation gear is entirely uncapped.- Why run Omega normal more then once when the gear is RNG based and inferior?
- Why purchase or make crafted gear when no matter the melds you choose, it'll be inferior?
- Why run Ivalice multiple times when the 330 gear is RNG based and people will have had three months to obtain uncapped tomestone gear?
- Why continuous run roulettes after you've obtained all the Creation gear you fancy, which will happen significantly faster?

I see what you or they are purposing, but you aren't seeing the opposing side and how it renders a massive portion of gear obsolete. In fact, it makes 4.1 entirely pointless since we wouldn't need a catch up patch. You also seemingly refuse to acknowledge you can readily switch jobs and still complete content, including Savage. Furthermore, as Hyomin pointed, statics generally have you playing roles. My static wouldn't want me to suddenly switch from a melee DPS to a caster just because I felt like it. That is community enforced, and you'll be hard pressed finding groups willing to expect you changing jobs on a whim.

The only one that is "refuse to acknowledge" is people's different wants and needs from your own. All I see is "things are done this way and should stay this way" argument. These low weekly caps does not benefit anything. Just because you think they do, does not make it true. I am not asking to remove the caps completely but the system does need changing so people can gear other jobs. For the rest, point was missed.

Note that I'm not necessarily agreeing with SE's decision, just that I think they have basis for making things the way they are. If they've been doing it for the past 4 years and it's been working, why would they change it up now?

Keeping the same thing because that is how it always has been done, is never a good argument with me. It is not a very good system for those that want to gear other jobs. Why people think why the current system works when it doesn't is beyond me. It just gets people worn out from running the same dungeon days and days for months. People complain about that, now I see people saying this is a good thing? I am beyond confused.

Why should I waste my time doing delta normal anymore? The music is bland, the bosses came out of nowhere, the lore behind it does not make much sense, and the gear from it was outdated 2 weeks of release, even before you had time to get a body from it? You really think doing a system like this has no flaws? that is why it needs changing.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

For the record, "everyone and everything" are most definitely absolutes. Also, what proof do you have that everyone would just grind creation tomes? Does everyone in game already have full sets of verity gear for all jobs?

Unless things have changed drastically, this game has mostly 'casual' players. This is based on past census results from SE which showed an abysmal clear % for Savage raids. If the tomes cap were to be removed, there is a good chance most people would probably continue on at their pace, while those looking for the added flexibilty and freedom will finally be able to gear how they want.

On the jobs they care about, I'd say most do by now. Regardless, the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence why the system isn't working as intended. Another prime example the carrot on a stick mentality works is Leveling Roulette. Queue times decreased dramatically once they added cracked clusters. That is hardly a coincidence. Grinding tomestones isn't difficult nor something exclusive to the hardcore playerbase. Look at the post above, where nearly half the released content is rendered worthless with uncapped tomestones. You insist people will just "continue on their pace," but why? All of the aforementioned offers inferior gear and a less efficient grind. Look no further then light farming when it comes to people and long grinds. The devs designed it so we'd run multiple bits of content with our Animas. What did most do? Spam A1S endlessly because it produced the best result for the least amount of effort. The same thing will happen with uncapped tomestones because it's happened every single time with other content where a cap didn't exist.

The only one that is "refuse to acknowledge" is people's different wants and needs from your own. All I see is "things are done this way and should stay this way" argument. These low weekly caps does not benefit anything. Just because you think they do, does not make it true. I am not asking to remove the caps completely but the system does need changing so people can gear other jobs. For the rest, point was missed.

People can gear other jobs. The only reason you wouldn't do content with crafted gear is because you care about your FFlogs. You can't claim a system is broken without any proof. You may dislike it, but those aren't the same thing. As noted above, the burden is on you to proof this system is ineffective and SE would benefit more so from an unrestricted system. Considering they have relied upon it for four years, I'll believe their market team whose job it is to determine what keeps people subscribed over you thinking it'll be better if you could overgear whenever you felt like it.

And "point missed" is a nice way to gloss over a large amount of content being obsolete. You seem to believe people will just run it constantly for fun. Please, go attempt to queue into Coil, Alexander, any synced EX Primal pre-Stormblood. You'll be waiting a very long time. It's almost like that content offers no incentive, thus people won't do it anymore.

[uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu]

If they remove the time gate, I want them to remove all other gates for getting mounts/glamors.
What time gate prevents anyone from playing ? If you're referring to ilevel 330/340, those are pity/glamor gears.
The last ilevel is never needed to run anything, they are there to help sucky people clear faster with less carrying.
The time gate exists so they know what to chase based on their own schedule, not because their time is limited.
Exactly like any other carrots.

[HyoMinPark]

I have a question for everyone supporting this concept of gating this game does (and contradicts itself of allowing you play more then 1 job)Why where you doing delta normal after the second week? the 320 gear is cheap

For me? Personally, it boils down to stats. The 320 Omega Normal body piece is best with regards to stats (for BRD) after the Genji body from V4S. The crafted body is not that great in terms of stats for BRD. BRD wants to stock-pile Crit, because of the nature of our songs and how Repertoire procs off of critical damage done by our DoTs. So, naturally, I would want to take the gear with the better Crit value, which happens to be the Genji body. The Genta with 2 Crit VIs is a fine substitute until I get the body I want, as the Creation body piece is Determination/Skill Speed (not good for BRD) and the crafted body is Skill Speed/Direct Hit. And while the crafted can be pentamelded with Crit, the Genta still has higher crit values with two Tier VIs in it until I get the Genji. (Plus, pentamelding can be a huge pain/gil sink and after pentamelding both gatherers and crafters, I'm wanting a break from the melding RNG.)

So your logic that Omega Normal was made obsolete after the crafted sets came out is flawed. If someone is min-maxing a job, they're going to stack the stats that carry the most weight to give them the most benefit. They won't necessarily go for full crafted or for just the higher ilvl. Higher ilvl doesn't necessarily equate better gear, nor does crafted equate better. Even with pentamelds.

For players that don't care about stats and stat weights and min-maxing, the difference between Omega Normal gear and 320 crafted gear is inconsequential. But just because some care and other don't (and visa versa) doesn't make one gear option obsolete. They're both viable gear options until the next tier of raids are released, which will come with new tomestone gear (capped), new 8-man normal gear, new crafted gear, and new savage gear.

With all this being said, it is still very much possible to gear all of your jobs if you use all the gear options available to you. So please stop saying that it's impossible. It's only impossible if you're limiting yourself to one gear option (capped tomestones), and that is no one's fault but your own.

[Skivvy]

On the jobs they care about, I'd say most do by now. Regardless, the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence why the system isn't working as intended.

Oh really? That's convenient. lol. You are the one claiming that everyone would have everything maxed out, and that most people have all their jobs geared in Verity (due to the free farm), but I am the one that needs to provide proof the system isn't working as intended (despite my never having claimed that)? This has turned too silly. Peace out!