Healer & Tank DPS (WoW vs FFXIV)

[Kuwagami]

?

Yeah because there is no in between "tanks do 3/4th of dps's job" and "tanks do 1/40th of dps's job".

Not to mention you didn't understand what I was talking about. In a MMO where tank dps is neglictible, all the "I solo the entire game" thing doesn't exist. Tanks can't really kill mobs alone, dps get killed if they try, etc..

God forbid you should group with people in a MMO's overworld map. Ain't got no time to socialize.

[Shurrikhan]

Tanks should be complimented for staying in TANK role and holding aggro too. I don't get the constant insistence on tanks doing the DPS job, regardless of the balance requirement that tank dps be within a certain percentage of dps dps.

But why "stay" in tank stance when you can survive just fine, at greater gains typically to your own DPS than available to your healer, after having already gotten plenty of aggro? To butter your "role" with a smattering of misplaced pride while actually contributing less?

Not to mention you didn't understand what I was talking about. In a MMO where tank dps is neglictible, all the "I solo the entire game" thing doesn't exist. Tanks can't really kill mobs alone, dps get killed if they try, etc.

How is it more fun to need a near perfect allotment of healers or a bulwark of non-DPS just to get the simplest of things done? By all means, make that case for stronger mobs. (As it is already, in many a FATE or A-rank...) But why should I need a healer and a tank to kill dire-mite?

Forcing players to cooperate because of painfully restrictive parameters does not make the overworld fun. Overworld designs that allow for creative cooperation does. And the funny thing about that... those things tend to work better without ripping out or neglecting prior mechanics (e.g. the near-complete removal of CC in dungeon content at 50+, leaving systems such as melee range detection on moving targets or pet responsiveness at dark age levels, etc.) and inflating mob damage and passive role distinction to force trinities on people.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

But why "stay" in tank stance when you can survive just fine, at greater gains typically to your own DPS than available to your healer, after having already gotten plenty of aggro? To butter your "role" with a smattering of misplaced pride while actually contributing less?

While what I am about to say may not always be the case, consider that turning off tank stance might mean you're making your healer have to work harder to keep you alive and thus may well be reducing their own dps contribution for an overall net gain of zero, just to improve your own personal dps.

[Shurrikhan]

While what I am about to say may not always be the case, consider that turning off tank stance might mean you're making your healer have to work harder to keep you alive and thus may well be reducing their own dps contribution for an overall net gain of zero, just to improve your own personal dps.

Yes, as I said in the post before last, that happens. It's no so black and white. It'll also depend on your tank. It's more efficient to have the PLD heal and you Gravity spam as long as the PLD won't overcap on TP (assuming he will otherwise eventually TP starve at optimal crowd DPS). There are some very, very fine plateaus with RNG (Crit heals) atop them. When bristling with mana in a massive pull of weak mobs, the same is true of DRK and it's Abyssal Drain. But it's also rare that simply modifying the order in which cooldowns were used by healer and tank wouldn't already allow for the same window of healer opportunity for a Warrior or DRK, especially paired with a non-SCH, making the extension provided by tank stance redundant. And if you have a 7-Decimate spam ready to go, there's nothing your healer can do to compete with that contribution.

The point was "when" the gains are likely to be more for you than for the healer, one should adjust accordingly. It goes both ways, which is what's fun about it, imo. It's one of the (few-ish) things I really, really like about tanks and healers in this game, especially in speedy dungeon runs.