Is there a way to actually use Plenary Indulgence?

[Silver-Strider]

Sorry I disagree with you 100% There are plenty of ways to use it in dungeons, but dungeons are also trivial content so why would it matter? For normal raids, you can easily time a quick medica and spam your plenary macro to snipe heal the raid.

Again, people crying over plenary just don't know how to play whm to it's full potential.

Or it could be because the skill is underwhelming AF and we would like it to be less so. It has nothing to do with playing WHM to its full potential but rather that the skill is just a big let down, especially when compared to skills we've gotten earlier. Assize is 2 confessions worth of Heals+Damage+MP return, Thin air gives free spells for 12 seconds, Tetra is a free burst heal, Asylum is a fairly potent AoE regen and are all arguably better than PI.

PI requires at least 1 AoE heal to go off and heal people for it to even be active and then you have 10 seconds to make use of it or else you lose it. In a Dungeon setting, this is unlikely to happen since most damage is directed at the tank and the few times anyone else does gets hit, a single AoE heal will either be enough that PI is just overheal or in the case of medica 2, would just cause it to waste the regen effect. In raids, the heal is so underwhelming, that unless it crits at 3 stacks, I've often found myself still needing an additional AoE to fully top people off after it's use.

Defend it all you want but please, don't insult people because you feel it's fine.

[Sebazy]

Or it could be because the skill is underwhelming AF and we would like it to be less so.

Comparing it to the likes of Assize and Thin air is naive at best, how balanced do you think White Mages would be if every SB ability we got was as impactful and game changing as Thin Air or Assize?

I've said it once, I'll say it again, stop thinking of it as a heal in it's own right, but rather as some extra scaling potency you can slap ontop of another aoe heal for free every minute. You should be comparing it to Largesse, not Assize or Asylum.

All level cap abilities should be good? Flamethrower? All level cap abilities should be useable in all content? Dissipation? It's not even a healer specific thing, PLD and DRK both get a very raid orientated level cap ability too. Raid centric abilities are not even anything new to SB, how often do you find yourself in a position where you can efficiently and effectively use Cure 3 with a pug?

Currently it needs a situation where you get 2 or 3 sources of aoe damage that are close enough to prevent just topping up with medica II and an oGCD from the other healer. With 2 hits, you'll likely only use it with 1 charge, with 3 hits you're much more likely to get the full 3 confessions. O3S is a great example of this in action. One thing I would suggest might make it a little easier to use in non savage tho would be to allow Confession stacks to be generated even with overheal.

This would allow a healer to 'ramp it up' a stack earlier for a HPS check by precasting Medica II, it's not optimal or efficient play, but it's something you see throughout casual 8/24 man content. It'd give the ability a little more bite and as such, make it feel somewhat more rewarding even if it didn't actually achieve much in the grand scheme of things.

[Silver-Strider]

Comparing it to the likes of Assize and Thin air is naive at best, how balanced do you think White Mages would be if every SB ability we got was as impactful and game changing as Thin Air or Assize?

I've said it once, I'll say it again, stop thinking of it as a heal in it's own right, but rather as some extra scaling potency you can slap ontop of another aoe heal for free every minute. You should be comparing it to Largesse, not Assize or Asylum.

All level cap abilities should be good? Flamethrower? All level cap abilities should be useable in all content? Dissipation? It's not even a healer specific thing, PLD and DRK both get a very raid orientated level cap ability too. Raid centric abilities are not even anything new to SB, how often do you find yourself in a position where you can efficiently and effectively use Cure 3 with a pug?

Currently it needs a situation where you get 2 or 3 sources of aoe damage that are close enough to prevent just topping up with medica II and an oGCD from the other healer. With 2 hits, you'll likely only use it with 1 charge, with 3 hits you're much more likely to get the full 3 confessions. O3S is a great example of this in action. One thing I would suggest might make it a little easier to use in non savage tho would be to allow Confession stacks to be generated even with overheal.

This would allow a healer to 'ramp it up' a stack earlier for a HPS check by precasting Medica II, it's not optimal or efficient play, but it's something you see throughout casual 8/24 man content. It'd give the ability a little more bite and as such, make it feel somewhat more rewarding even if it didn't actually achieve much in the grand scheme of things.

Let's say we do compare it with Largesse, it would just make the ability even more lackluster considering that it only applies to our AoE heals vs all our heals. I'm not saying that Raid skills shouldn't exist, nor that other lackluster abilities don't need to be looked at but if we just pretend PI is fine, it's really doing no one any favors.

The ability is just far too rigid a skill, what with its poor duration, 60 second CD and weak heal it provides considering the effort involved to even get the skill to work in the 1st place. If I have blow thru 3 AoE heals just for an ability to be at its peak effectiveness, shouldn't the ability at least FEEL impactful, instead of some cheap, tacked on bonus? Is it wrong to want the ability to actually be worth the energy of all those AoE heals I used, especially considering all the stipulations the ability has?

[Sebazy]

Let's say we do compare it with Largesse, it would just make the ability even more lackluster considering that it only applies to our AoE heals vs all our heals.

Largesse+Medica - 360 potency
Medica+PI - 450 potency

Largesse+CureIII - 660 potency
CureIII+PI - 700 potency

Largesse+MedicaII - 240 potency up front + 55 a tick (790 potency total)
MedicaII+PI - 350 potency up front + 50 a tick (850 potency total)

Largesse+MedicaII+Medica - 600 potency up front + 55 a tick (1150 potency total)
MedicaII+PI+Medica - 650 potency up front + 50 a tick (1150 potency total)
MedicaII+Medica+PI - 800 potency up front + 50 a tick (1300 potency total)

(Fingers crossed I've done my ciggy packet math right!)

In a sustained situation Largesse will inevitably win over it's duration once you start including regens plus a couple of cures and such, but even with only a single stack PI offers more immediate front loaded aoe burst in pretty much any situation. It also has a shorter CD.

So uhm, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one then? =(

People were a little confused by Emergency Tactics at first as well, it'll take a little while to find the right content in which it shines for you. But in those situations you won't want to be without it.

Just put the timer back up to 30 seconds. That'll put confessions, as a mechanic, in a much better spot going forward too. It's going to be very hard to make them do more things if they're just 10 seconds.

The issue with that is that we have to Aoe heal frequently enough in O3S and O4S that we would consistently be rolling over confession stacks without even thinking about it. It would be nothing less than a 450 potency 60 second CD insta heal past the first few minutes of O3S and about a minute into O4S. I'm not sure there's a way to make it impactful in casual content without turning it into an Indom grade heal in the end game unfortunately.

[Silver-Strider]

Largesse+Medica - 360 potency
Medica+PI - 450 potency

Largesse+CureIII - 660 potency
CureIII+PI - 700 potency

Largesse+MedicaII - 240 potency up front + 55 a tick (790 potency total)
MedicaII+PI - 350 potency up front + 50 a tick (850 potency total)

Largesse+MedicaII+Medica - 600 potency up front + 55 a tick (1150 potency total)
MedicaII+PI+Medica - 650 potency up front + 50 a tick (1150 potency total)
MedicaII+Medica+PI - 800 potency up front + 50 a tick (1300 potency total)

(Fingers crossed I've done my ciggy packet math right!)

In a sustained situation Largesse will inevitably win over it's duration once you start including regens plus a couple of cures and such, but even with only a single stack PI offers more immediate front loaded aoe burst in pretty much any situation. It also has a shorter CD.

So uhm, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one then? =(

People were a little confused by Emergency Tactics at first as well, it'll take a little while to find the right content in which it shines for you. But in those situations you won't want to be without it.

Pocket math is fine but as you said, in a sustained environment, Largesse will come out on top, which is what I was referring to; should have made that more clear I suppose. I'll agree to disagree on it.

The issue with that is that we have to Aoe heal frequently enough in O3S and O4S that we would consistently be rolling over confession stacks without even thinking about it. It would be nothing less than a 450 potency 60 second CD insta heal past the first few minutes of O3S and about a minute into O4S. I'm not sure there's a way to make it impactful in casual content without turning it into an Indom grade heal in the end game unfortunately.

I did list a few suggestions on how to improve PI without breaking it in the previous page but I'll go over it again.

Increase the potency by 50 points
Extend the duration on Confessions to 15 seconds
Reduce the CD on PI to 45 seconds.

End result is a slightly more potent form of PI with a more manageable CD than the current 60 second rendition and slightly more flexibility in Confession timers. It would match Indom in strength with 3 stacks but has a slightly longer CD and would still require prep for it to work effectively so I don't believe it would be terrible if these changes were introduced.

[Verdan]

The issue with that is that we have to Aoe heal frequently enough in O3S and O4S that we would consistently be rolling over confession stacks without even thinking about it. It would be nothing less than a 450 potency 60 second CD insta heal past the first few minutes of O3S and about a minute into O4S. I'm not sure there's a way to make it impactful in casual content without turning it into an Indom grade heal in the end game unfortunately.

I don't wanna sound dismissive, but... so? So what if in periods of prolonged grouped AoE healing the skill does really well? That's what it's designed to do. It requires time to be charged, so it's not nearly as good(it's actually a bad choice compared to assize) with sudden aoe damage that you aren't allowed to pre-charge it for. It becomes a worse and worse idea the fewer people are being damaged, and is completely useless for single target healing no matter how sustained it is.
Sure, I don't savage raid. So maybe in this game all healing challenges are sustained AoE ones, but in other games I played you could create many scenarios where healing was important where all the limitations of PI, even if confessions lasted a MINUTE, would add up to a skill that you can't use or don't want to. I just don't see how making the confessions longer breaks it in all high end content forever because it lets it excel in fights where the WHM is free to charge it and will always be using it.