SE, We need to talk about Leatherworker ...

[QT_Melon]

Not at all. There is no personal attack, just that the responses are predictable.

Most, if not all your replies read from the same scripts and platitudes people tend to jump to instead of going back and reading Yoshi's interviews and therefore applying the logic of the direction he's taking. He wants the feedback, as long as you don't make personal attacks at the devs, he welcomes it. He's stated he doesn't want players to feel overwhelmed and constantly trying to play catch up.

So the game has to be looked at the perspective of the average player who will not always buy extra retainers. - That means most if not all of your arguments otherwise are pretty null and void. No one is going to buy retainers if they stop playing. This is not what Yoshi wants, he wants subscriptions over retainers. Retainers are a cost for the maintenance on space, meaning they are paying back into the resource they're given.


So with that in mind, are the drop rates fair? For the most part I'd say yes, but not the mane and hair due to a couple of problems

1. It is a "double mat" Meaning it needs to be crafted at one level and then multiples of that same level need to be crafted again to make the next product.

2. Where Halgai and Manzasiri hair become problematic is from the fact that one type of mob drops these. This is unlike a lot of the skins, where for example Tiger skin drops from 3 different level mobs, Gagana drop from 2 types.

Perhaps hopefully like they did with HW they'll have a vendor that sells them at a certain price or a Beast Tribe that later sells it, but right now Dawn Surge/Steppe Surge is probably the biggest issue.

[Silverbane]

So the game has to be looked at the perspective of the average player who will not always buy extra retainers. - That means most if not all of your arguments otherwise are pretty null and void.

Nonsense. As I posted, two hunting retainers are enough - I have three, and they bring in mats faster than I use them. And everyone gets two for free.

So with that in mind, are the drop rates fair? For the most part I'd say yes, but not the mane and hair due to a couple of problems

Fairness, in a video game? Are you kidding? The concept doesn't even apply. Everyone plays by the same rule. What, are you envious of Blacksmiths? Then be a Blacksmith. No one is forcing you to be a Leatherworker (or Weaver).

1. It is a "double mat" Meaning it needs to be crafted at one level and then multiples of that same level need to be crafted again to make the next product.

What, like ingots? Like most Weaver mats?

2. Where Halgai and Manzasiri hair become problematic ...

Isn't for Leatherworkers, the topic of this thread, since they are Weaver mats. And Weavers get easy-to-get Twincoons as a top-level mat, so they have no reason to complain. Besides, you want to talk about mat availablilty, let's talk Culinarian seafood, shall we? Checked the market prices on that lately?

Perhaps hopefully like they did with HW they'll have a vendor that sells them at a certain price or a Beast Tribe that later sells it, but right now Dawn Surge/Steppe Surge is probably the biggest issue.

Except it isn't. iL320 combat gear isn't based on it. It's an intermediate material currently only good for DoH and DoL, that will become just as irrelevant as Chimerical Felt (remember how hard that was to get, if you didn't have retainers?) once the next level of DoH/DoL gear is made available.

So: Please forward to whatever the iL320 DoH/DoL gear requires being even harder to get.
Yoshida-san understands that top-end crafting should be a challenge, just like top-end raiding, and that includes getting the mats for it.

[QT_Melon]

Nonsense. As I posted, two hunting retainers are enough - I have three, and they bring in mats faster than I use them. And everyone gets two for free.

Again you're on a lot, others have mentioned limited time. Yoshi again stated he doesn't want players to feel like they have to stay on all the time. He wants them to stay subscribed, since this is by the month, not the hour (in terms of paying for playtime).

Fairness, in a video game? Are you kidding?

Business > "fairness"
If it affects players in a way that harms business that gonna be something he needs feedback on.

Isn't for Leatherworkers, the topic of this thread, since they are Weaver mats.

Says the guy "awash in manes" ... Now you want to try playing that. Please. As I said that's why I said it needed it's own separate thread, but as far as LTW go I already said it's pretty much fine. These arguments about the mane is to counter a point YOU bragged about.

The thing is this is a lower tier mat than Twincoon, this is just like before where LTW was complaining about GATED items like the Corthean Tea Leaves. The devs then let the Sundries vendor in Foundation sell some of those mats. So yeah they do listen to feedback.

So: Please forward to whatever the iL320 DoH/DoL gear requires being even harder to get.
Yoshida-san understands that top-end crafting should be a challenge, just like top-end raiding, and that includes getting the mats for it.

So what, it has nothing to do with leveling gear. If you're gonna make an argument at least stay consistent to the point. Asking for a vendor happened BEFORE, not so wrong to ask for it again. Not talking about the level of difficulty for future mats, people are welcoming the challenge. They are just asking for a bit of relief on a bottlenecked mat that is not only used as a base craft ie the mane itself, but also the thread and cloth.

[Silverbane]

Again you're on a lot, others have mentioned limited time.

How do you know that? I often log on, cycle my retainers, and log off. Takes maybe three minutes.

Says the guy "awash in manes" ... Now you want to try playing that.

The exact quote is "I'm awash in skins, manes and hairs."

Tsk tsk tsk. That's dishonest quoting on your part, you didn't even include an ellipsis. I've seen lawyers try that trick in their briefs, pretending something or someone said something other than what was really said, in an effort to win an argument. It doesn't fool the court, the law clerks always check. All it accomplishes is damaging of the lawyer's credibility.

Not surprisingly, the same thing can happen when a person quotes dishonestly on an internet forum, where everyone's a judge.

[QT_Melon]

How do you know that? I often log on, cycle my retainers, and log off. Takes maybe three minutes.

Still more time spent than others on average can. Until they develop an API for that...

The exact quote is "I'm awash in skins, manes and hairs."

Tsk tsk tsk. That's dishonest quoting on your part, you didn't even include an ellipsis. I've seen lawyers try that trick in their briefs, pretending something or someone said something other than what was really said, in an effort to win an argument. It doesn't fool the court, the law clerks always check. All it accomplishes is damaging of the lawyer's credibility.

Not surprisingly, the same thing can happen when a person quotes dishonestly on an internet forum, where everyone's a judge.

A partial quote is that is not out of context of what you are saying is in no way dishonest. Nice try. Get back to the point.

The point is, that they have offered a remedy in the past for mats if they are problematic.

[Silverbane]

A partial quote is that is not out of context of what you are saying is in no way dishonest.

Sure it is. You were criticizing me for being off topic because I said "awash in manes" and the thread is about Leatherworkers, but in fact I wrote (led with even) skins, not manes, and skins are directly relevant to Leatherworkers. So your criticism was dishonest, and supported by a dishonest quote.

Even if you don't understand that it's a dishonest tactic (and to support an invalid ad-hominem as well, in this case, a double fault) I think most of the readers here will. And that's what important: just like in court, the goal of an argument is to convince members of the "jury," not your opponent.

Of course, the only jury that really matters is the developers. And they don't seem to agree with you.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

Still more time spent than others on average can.

Gotta put in above the average work level if you want to achieve above the average result. Do not need an API for that - you just need to accept that you cannot get the maximum result with the minimum of effort.

Are the manes/hairs an annoying problem, especially if you intend to go hunting for them yourself? Yup. Don't think anyone's denying that anywhere in this thread. The solutions, for whatever reason, seem to be anathema to you, on the basis that "its not fair because not everyone can do those". Well, maybe not, but most can, they merely choose not to, for one reason or another in their personal lives. Nothing wrong with that at all - but bear in mind, again, that you do not get maximum results with minimum effort.

[QT_Melon]

Nothing wrong with that at all - but bear in mind, again, that you do not get maximum results with minimum effort.

Sorry but sending out a retainer is not "maximum effort"

What is with the strawman logic here? Was there EVER an argument about asking for "Maximum results"? A possibility of having a vendor similar to HW is maximum results now"?

Sure it is. You were criticizing me for being off topic because I said "awash in manes" and the thread is about Leatherworkers, but in fact I wrote (led with even) skins, not manes, and skins are directly relevant to Leatherworkers.

So 2/3 of your reply was off topic which now equals "none of it?" No sorry, try again. You decided to intentionally include those in your reply.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

The difference between what you say you are asking for, better results for mimimal work, and the maximum results for minimum work, is one of degree, not kind. Where do I get the idea you want minimal work?

Still more time spent than others on average can

Again you're on a lot, others have mentioned limited time.

If people can only put in minimal time, they cannot expect more than minimal results. Its that plain and simple.