Why "Super Savage" is a good thing...

[Lelila38]

Umm... I'm not sure about your experience but from what I've seen its generally the "casuals" who stay subbed and the hardcore raiders that don't.

Maybe I should clarify, I wasn't referring to the bleeding edge, world first hardcore raiders, but more to the majority of people who raid (midcore as they are called often). So, groups like mine, for example. On Alexander we kept raiding and doing stuff together all the way through, until Sb got released.

On the other hand, I know a lot of people who don't raid, who just come in, play the story, level the 2-3 jobs they're interested in, gear them up with tomestone gear and then unsub til next content patch to do the same. Don't get me wrong, that's fine, if they want it that way, but I don't think SE makes a lot of money off accounts that do that, as opposed to mine for example, which has been continuously active since launch. And it's been active cause I was busy raiding.

[IllyriaKnotfred]

snip

This already happens now. Nothing is going to change.

[Malzian]

Maybe I should clarify, I wasn't referring to the bleeding edge, world first hardcore raiders, but more to the majority of people who raid (midcore as they are called often). So, groups like mine, for example. On Alexander we kept raiding and doing stuff together all the way through, until Sb got released.

On the other hand, I know a lot of people who don't raid, who just come in, play the story, level the 2-3 jobs they're interested in, gear them up with tomestone gear and then unsub til next content patch to do the same. Don't get me wrong, that's fine, if they want it that way, but I don't think SE makes a lot of money off accounts that do that, as opposed to mine for example, which has been continuously active since launch. And it's been active cause I was busy raiding.

Well, you're always going to have things like that and people will unsub and resub for a variety of reasons across the spectrum. I don't raid myself due to time restraints that won't allow me to conform to a static schedule, but I've been subbed since the game re-launched and I play consistently. This is partly because I'm an Omni and there's always something for me to work on, but I also know plenty of others who play just to play even though they don't raid. It really boils down to the people who enjoy the game and want to play will support it consistently and those who are not as interested, or those who cannot afford to stay subbed constantly, won't. I don't think you can break the groups down any other way.

[RiceisNice]

My only fear is that super savage will become the STANDARD PARAMETER for everything. You can brace yourself for:....

I mean, this is more of a problem that's generated by the community and playerbase, rather than the developers.

[AlexionSkylark]

I mean, this is more of a problem that's generated by the community and playerbase, rather than the developers.

Yes it is. But one cannot deny the responsibility developers have when releasing such content knowing the consequences.

This already happens now. Nothing is going to change.

Happens, but in a lesser extent. many on the raiding community on HSW had the "clear credentials" to shut those people up, and that KIND OF managed the issue, to an extent. This will be near-impossible with savage, and the problem will likely aggravate in an order of magnitude.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I doubt the raiding scene today is only 1% of the playerbase anymore.

It was never 1% of the playbase. That was always a strawman argument that people used when they wanted to make excuses for a job being poorly balanced.

[Malzian]

I doubt the raiding scene today is only 1% of the playerbase anymore.

It was never 1% of the playbase. That was always a strawman argument that people used when they wanted to make excuses for a job being poorly balanced.

Yeah, the 1% thing is just an easy way to refer to the "best of the best". It's not really 1% of the population but meant to try and give a strong, sharp image of how small the minority of players the particular concept you're try to defend or defame you feel it would affect. It's easier to get a feel for "1% of the population" as opposed to "the top elite" since 1% is a quantification we're familiar with.

[AngeloFlick]

Why? Because this kind of content is what gives an MMO "street cred", as it were. World of Warcraft has professional guilds with corporate sponsors who race to be the world first in clearing raids (and individual raid bosses, too) and this spectacle very much becomes an event unto itself that garners yet more interest in the game.

It also helps when players compare the two MMOs and trying to determine which they want to play: even if the player in question will never ACTUALLY enter Super Savage, they'll know for a fact that they'll never go without challenge in the game, and that's more important than you'd think.

As someone who has been playing various MMOs since the days of Everquest and did the whole hardcore raiding thing for at least a decade-
I don't actually give a crap about this game's "cred" in comparison to WoW. I played it from beta all the way through WotLK before quitting because I have come to deeply dislike the viewpoint that hardcore endgame in MMOs is everything, because you know what? Once you quit the game it all becomes worthless very quickly. No one gives a crap anymore that we cleared Vex Thal in 2 days due to late notification in EQ1 (open world raiding rotations yo), or that our guild did weekly Molten Core clears in vanilla WoW. All that stuff is rotting on my old characters and all the stress and drama I dealt with to get it was not worth it in the end. At all. I *like* the overall feel of FFXIV, I love the requirement of MSQ and the fact that Squeenix tries to keep all the old content relevant and focuses on casuals. As far as I've been able to tell, FFXIV is the only MMO that does those things instead of catering to the hardcore crowd and for me, that's the draw. Trying to compete with WoW by doing the endgame things WoW does just makes for another cookie cutter WoW clone. And if I wanted that, I'd go dig out my Blizzard authenticator.

Umm... I'm not sure about your experience but from what I've seen its generally the "casuals" who stay subbed and the hardcore raiders that don't. Fact is that if you're doing content casually it lasts longer so there's more reason to log in and do things for longer periods of time since you still have things to do. Do the raiders still log in? Yes, but they tend to log in and grab the top BiS that they can, but then they generally leave until some new BiS or another raid comes along.

Some of that 1% may keep their subs up but I don't think that it's because they're continuing to raid as much as it is just matter of habit. Most of them have milked the Savage raids dry within 7 weeks of the first full clear, but honestly the major bulk of consistent subs the game has stems from people playing casually because, even after the raids have been out and cleared for weeks... they still have fresh content to do.

Pretty much this. I've never unsubbed since I started and I've been happily leveling alt classes, gathering, questing, and working on older content that I passed over at level due to my current casual playstyle. Logging in just to run the weeklies gets old really quick, and IMO if all you do is raid in FFXIV you're not even enjoying the stuff that sets this game apart from WoW and all the other cookie cutter MMOs.

[Ilyrian]

My only fear is that super savage will become the STANDARD PARAMETER for everything. You can brace yourself for:

And many others... People will start taking the super savage raiders, how they do things and how they behave as the MINIMUM ACCEPTABLE for raiding, including EX primals and Savage. And that's gonna get the community as a whole much more toxic and less welcoming for anyone who are below those set arbitrary standards (that the toxic players themselves will also be, mostly, but hey, hypocrisy always was the main rule)

Well that only really applies to PuGs, which evidently this content is not made for.

But you make a valid point – it will naturally cause a trickle down effect. Only thing you can do is shield yourself from it with your FC.

[RichardButte]

My only fear is that super savage will become the STANDARD PARAMETER for everything.

There were plenty of guilds in WoW that had no aspiration to do Mythic raids (the hardest), just as there are plenty of FCs in XIV that won't aspire to Savage/SSavage content.

And there will be people who look down on others all the time, regardless.

There will be people who look down on others for not doing SSavage, just as there will be people who look down on others FOR doing SSavage, calling them "no-lifer tryhards".

People are going to be people, but that'll never be a reason to exclude high end challenges from the game.