[Off-Topic] WoW Raiding

[Tubben]

What you dont see in that type of videos is, that every tiny mistake means you die. After 3 deads, you can go and wipe. It look's easy, because they are the top 5% (WoW) players world-wide (and they had 600+ tries to learn that fight). They are TOTAL undergeared for that kind of fight.

You can be sure, even if you think it's easy - it's not. Every of them has to play at their maximum, without any mistakes and not wasting a fraction of an GCD.

Dont forget - as much undergeared as you can be, so everyone has to be at the maximum to dish out the needed HPS/DPS to win that fight.

[loreleidiangelo]

I don't think it's really adequate to compare the two games for raiding, tbh. In WoW it's the devs' lifeblood - they love creating them, challenging the playerbase with them, and rewarding the players for completing them. I won't say raiding is an "afterthought" in XIV like a lot of salty people like to do, but IMO it's pretty obvious that accessibility comes first to Square Enix, and hardcore raiding is the total antithesis of that.

Mythic Nighthold had about the same percentage of player clears as Gordias Savage, if that gives you an idea of the time commitment and difficulty required. Their Heroic raid clear percents are more similar to the Savage Creator level. Some of it is gear check, but some of it is just how the game is designed - tanks have a lot of small cooldowns that require resources to use but very few "big" cooldowns like Sentinel or Vengeance (to say nothing of Dead/HG lol). A spell like Cure III would be on a three-minute cooldown in WoW instead of on the global. In return, damage is still high, but less spikey, and it's more about staying ahead of the damage/outlasting the boss before he can outlast you. Classes like BRDs don't exist, so healer MP is ultra finite and they don't have too many solid oGCD emergency buttons like here.

In truth, I'd hazard that tanking and healing design in WoW is part of what makes their raids difficult. It's less about pitch-perfect lockstep mechanics and more about optimizing your throughput on your class.

Gordias was the most like a WoW Mythic insofar as how it tested your true optimization ability on your chosen job, IMO, and I think the similar clear numbers reflected that.

[Nezia]

Blizzard is pretty lazy when it comes to add visual effects to the mechanics. In most fights, from the point of view of someone who is ignorant from that specific encounter mechanics, it will look like everyone is just standing there doing nothing but their basic rotations, moving in and out at some times, creating a feeling of 'what? these guys really took 600 tries to dodge fireballs and soak some void zones?' when actually people are handling dozens of mechanics at a time, it is just that there is almost no visual warning whatsoever to most of them. Blizzard says otherwise, but they clearly design encounters expecting players to have mods/addons to tell them when mechanics are coming and how to handle them.

Also, gear really makes a difference in wow, because there are not many instant kill mechanics(like in ffxiv) and many mechanics are bypassed with enough dps/heal, while your friend took 654 tries to down the boss, many guilds who will get there later and thus have much more gear will not have more than 200 tries.

Lastly, while there are these insanely difficult bosses who take 600+ tries to kill, there is a number of mythic bosses that will take like 3 or 4 tries to kill even for the more casual groups.

[RiceisNice]

In truth, I'd hazard that tanking and healing design in WoW is part of what makes their raids difficult. It's less about pitch-perfect lockstep mechanics and more about optimizing your throughput on your class.

Gordias was the most like a WoW Mythic insofar as how it tested your true optimization ability on your chosen job, IMO, and I think the similar clear numbers reflected that.

To ride on this, Healing in WoW is more of a triage on keeping people alive and prioritizing who needs heals at any given moment; you aren't going to waste a GCD on throwing out damage spells because that can literally mean life or death in that moment. WoW mechanics also tend to be more precision oriented with execution rather than "dancing" (think A3s digitities without the shoddy server delay). You can look at the mechanics in the WoW video and see how precise the fireball detection is, compared to FFXIV when you have to account for latency and server tickrate.

[Sylvina]

won't say raiding is an "afterthought" in XIV like a lot of salty people like to do, but IMO it's pretty obvious that accessibility comes first to Square Enix, and hardcore raiding is the total antithesis of that.

And this is why Square Enix is better than Blizzard. Accessibility is a very good thing, it means more people will enjoy your content, less toxicity from the playerbase, and more fun all around.

[uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu]

Mmo or not, if rpg is about raiding there won't be a hero or a game in any context.
Can you imagine Lyse asking, how are we going to free Ala Mhigo?
Oh yea, let's get our squad killed 653x then brag about it.

[Tubben]

And this is why Square Enix is better than Blizzard. Accessibility is a very good thing, it means more people will enjoy your content, less toxicity from the playerbase, and more fun all around.

I dont want to start an this is better than that discussion, but in WoW nothing is locked behind an raid or dungeon. And every raid has 4 difficulty levels, where the easiest one can be done (and i am honest about that) half blind, half (or even full) afk with with one hand at the mouse and the other hand under the table.

In FF14 the mainstory is locked behind.. well you get it.

[RichardButte]

Super Savage is coming for this reason.

[AlexionSkylark]

...

I actually wasted 5~8 seconds of my life with your sig. damn you

[Sylvina]

I dont want to start an this is better than that discussion, but in WoW nothing is locked behind an raid or dungeon. And every raid has 4 difficulty levels, where the easiest one can be done (and i am honest about that) half blind, half (or even full) afk with with one hand at the mouse and the other hand under the table.

In FF14 the mainstory is locked behind.. well you get it.

Only none of the raids or dungeons are actually that bad. They can be challenging but they're not punishing and anyone can learn them. WoW's early raids suffered from tons of shitty design choices.