Extreme Undercutting - Should it be a violation?

[Nikolas]

I don't really craft or gather too much, but when I get an item with some value, I will undercut by 10 to 25 percent just to move it.

[Claviusnex]

The problem with this post is you assume people know how to value their time, most do not know how to do that. This is even more true when someone simply gets said item because they where lucky doing 1 run for WT.

More importantly this is a game I use for entertainment so the value of my time is the same whether I'm running dungeons or farming materials.

[Princess_Momoka]

More importantly this is a game I use for entertainment so the value of my time is the same whether I'm running dungeons or farming materials.

This proves my point. If you are choosing to farm for gil over gaining exp, how much gil/hr do you need for it to become worth it? For example, I may value 1 mil exp / hr over 100k gil /hr. (not real exact since exp gain is hugely different 1-49, vs 50-60, vs 60-61, vs 61-70. but just go with it) If I did not manage to get that drop in 1 hr and leave empty handed, that is time lost. Unless you are magically playing in some weird universe where you have endless time, time should be a value for you in what you do and what is worth doing.

Therein lies the heart of the issue. I'm a maths person yes, but that's raw maths, not economics. So the nuances that come alongside the economics escape me. And economics are a quite difficult thing from what I can see, so it's easy to understand why most people don't get it. I understand things a little better thanks to the mature discussions held in this thread (yes, there has been mature discussion here alongside all the not so nice responses), but I'm still far from truly getting it. And then when we account for those who don't use the forums, this information would not be brought to their light as easily, so unless people speak with them about it, it keeps the knowledge gap in circulation.

And then, there's those that don't wish to pursue max profit, and as such, they would gather everything themselves, craft everything themselves, etc. If they don't factor their time into the cost (let's say they don't consider it worth paying for their time, because they're not pursuing max profit), it does lend credulence to the undercutting. That being said, the supercrafters, who can farm them out non stop, will be able to beat them on economics of scale.

As for the WT edit you added in, that definitely plays a part of it too. But, i think the economics of scale would help balance that out.

I am not sure what being on the forums has to do anything. I only came recently because inventory issues sicken me. I tried get a Divine Benison discussion going but I given up on that. You should not need the forums to notice you do not have time to do everything, you need to pick and chose at some point. Example people salvage a lot so they do not have time to gather and minimally craft, so they will most likely buy materials off the MB and not farm the raw themselves.

[Claviusnex]

This proves my point. If you are choosing to farm for gil over gaining exp, how much gil/hr do you need for it to become worth it? For example, I may value 1 mil exp / hr over 100k gil /hr. (not real exact since exp gain is hugely different 1-49, vs 50-60, vs 60-61, vs 61-70. but jsut go with it) If I did not manage to get that drop in 1 hr and leave empty handed, that is time lost. Unless you are magically playing in some weird universe where you have endless time, time should be a value for you in what you do and what is worth doing.

What I'm saying is there is no difference in the value of the time at all. I play the game for entertainment and what I'm doing at any given time is what I feel like being entertained by. If I decide to gather it doesn't matter if I get ten items or one hundred as I am there to enjoy gathering. The game isn't a job with some return on investment point in a spreadsheet. The only intrinsic value on my time is how it relates to real life. In real life I'm retired but still consult. When consulting my time does have a value at $250/hr. When I'm not consulting, relaxing and enjoying my free time it is priceless.

[Mootowncow]

In FFXI manipulating the price of an item has been a bannable RMT offense since like 2006.

[Deslanthe]

Sorry OP, but no. Using my usual line when posters post this at WoW, no it should not be a violation. It is a player driven economy and should be handled by the players. Instead of wasting time with a GM you could have bought those items and Resold them at you Rate Instead you didnt.

[dynus]

I don't always compare prices myself. Sometimes I just want to unload things to clean up space with my retainers and choose a number that seems appropriate or close.

So... eh. With the intent to crash the market, sure, but it's fictional money, hard to judge.

[Princess_Momoka]

What I'm saying is there is no difference in the value of the time at all. I play the game for entertainment and what I'm doing at any given time is what Ifeel like being entertained by. If I decide to gather it doesn't matter if I get ten items or one hundred as I am there to enjoy gathering. The game isn't a job with some return on investment point in a spreadsheet. The only intrinsic value on my time is how it relates to real life. In real life I'm retired but still consult. When consulting my time does have a value at $250/hr. When I'm not consulting, relaxing and enjoying my free time it is priceless.

I know what you said, I am trying to explain why it makes no sense to me. We all have some limited time we can spend in the game, some people have more time then others. If I am doing an order for something, I expect some sort of gil to cover the opportunity cost that I could of been doing something else. Think of it like this, and I seen this situation before and it confuses me what some pick. If I can gather for 1 hour lets say, and I need 2 materials, one from a level 70 node and one from a 35 node. The 70 node may sell for 200 gil each while the 35 node may sell for 500 each. Some people just gather from the 70 node because they assume higher level = better I guess. But I know not only does the 35 node has more value but I can gather MORE from them in a shorter time just because how the abilities work. So I will gather from the 35 node, sell the excess and buy the 70 node items.

If you are just gathering .. to do something.. ? do you even care to gather an item that sells for the most?

Time as a value by everyone, and that value is different from person to person.

[Paladinleeds]

you could have bought those items and Resold them at you Rate Instead you didnt.

they were my items to begin with, as proven by the fact I reported myself... I've bolded it in the original post that was MYSELF I reported, just how much clearer than that do I have to get?

[Enla]

Ehh, it's annoying but frankly the markets eventually right themselves no matter how foolish people are with their attempts to chase quick profits. You just have to be patient is all and move along to another market until things settle down. Eventually the people unloading the cheap variations will do the same.