DoH need major changes just like battle classes

[QT_Melon]

have you leveled any crafting to 60 yet?

If you look at my lodestone you'll see I'm all 70 Crafters and Gatherers. I was end game crafter in HW often the raid crafter and cook. I was already 50 everything in ARR as well. people got around specialists by creating alts and using players as mules to funnel mats between their alts. It was like Eorzean's version of Breaking Bad. So it wasn't like it really discouraged others in the end, like I said it was passive dependency, not active.

[Elamys]

I didn't dislike the idea of locking specialist crafts, but materials like Luminous Fiber, Star Velvet, the base components, never should have been locked. Only the finished pieces.

[Kaurhz]

Some good ideas, some bad.

Rather than single-class crafters being punished by lack of abilities, a better implementation would probably include, rather than removing the need for cross class entirely, but giving single-class crafters a set of abilities equivalent to what we'd see with cross class abilities. Quite like what we saw with Byregot's Blessing, and Byregot's Brow, and similarly to what they almost done with Rapid Synth II, Careful Synth III, and Hasty Touch II. At least then maybe we'd have avoided the seriously OP abilities we got 66+

Recipes really need to come down to requiring crafts from other classes, like having a LTW item on a WVR crafted piece. I really need not explain more but rather than just say a little sense would cover the explanation. You wouldn't exactly see an axe made of items strictly from BSM, you'd still have the haft/handle made from lumber. That much is inescapable. It wouldn't just spawn itself in, or magically appear.

I do enjoy levelling up all crafts, in fact, so much I done it twice, but that's besides the point. again, I do agree that in terms of cross class it shouldn't feel as much as a necessity as it was in end game ARR, HW, or partially as it was in Stormblood. They have made a tread in the right direction I think, but Initial Preparations should've been buffed I feel. For example, with our current set of abilities in Stormblood:

Have Initial Preparations to be a stacked action. Using the action requires 50-76CP, can only be used in the first step of the craft, but grants 2-3 stacks of use. First stack could be used on, say Speciality: Reflect, then in the later craft, or midway, consume a second stack by using refurbish (Would be the equivalent of how many Comfort Zones you had in higher level crafts. Then an additional ability, one that lowers the recipe complexity/level by, say, for the next 4 steps of the craft.

I still do think that omnicrafting shouldn't be made entirely obsolete, which is an impression I got for some of the suggestions, as ultimately, that effort shouldn't go unrewarded, so the ability to craft almost anything you want without using the marketboard is good, and having a nice set of cross-class is nice. But again, going by my second paragraph I do believe the specialist ability set could do with some improvements, but otherwise how they've come from Heavensward-to-Stormblood is a major step in the right direction IMO

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I didn't dislike the idea of locking specialist crafts, but materials like Luminous Fiber, Star Velvet, the base components, never should have been locked. Only the finished pieces.

Locking recipes of any sort accomplished nothing except hurt the mid-tier crafter. Most omni-crafters simply leveled a second or even third character just to get around it, thus the portion of the playerbase SE wanted to halt were the only ones take advantage.

[Elamys]

I would hesitate to say "most" omni crafters leveled alts to get around the restriction. I knew exactly one person who had alts for that purpose, and I know a lot of crafters. I'm sure there was more than just my one person but I'd argue the majority of people found it a lot easier to just find a specialist they needed as opposed to going through all the hoopla of not only leveling your character up as a battle class so you could get to the quests you needed (since the specialist quest is in Ishgard), but also leveling all their crafts, probably through expensive grinding unless you really want to wait on leve allowances, and then gearing those ones as well.

I don't think it was a terrible idea to give some sort of unique identity to your specialist focused classes. Having EVERY recipe be specialist locked was a terrible idea, but having some isn't. And that combined with the strategy of unlocking them at the next tier does not really sound that horrible. I realize this is an unpopular opinion, but if you're choosing to focus on these certain crafts, it feels like there should be some tangible benefit beyond "here's some different buttons that are extremely awkward to use, and a little bit of extra Control and Craftsmanship."

[Silverbane]

I would hesitate to say "most" omni crafters leveled alts to get around the restriction. I knew exactly one person who had alts for that purpose, and I know a lot of crafters.

My wife and I both did it. Three omni-crafters characters each.

[QT_Melon]

My wife and I both did it. Three omni-crafters characters each.

Yes but that is a confirmational bias.

Elamys is hesitant because there isn't exactly mathematical data actually supporting this claim other than "word of mouth".

[Roth_Trailfinder]

I have heard of a few here and there who went ahead and had alts to get around the recipe restrictions imposed by the HW iteration of the Specialist system. That said, I too am hesitant to suggest that many or most omnicrafters bothered with doing that.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

I know plenty who do, though perhaps most is too strong. I would say enough as it doesn't take many hardcore crafters to completely dominate. It's also why I suspect the devs abandoned recipe restrictions if they, indeed, have.

The other issue with Specialist is it doesn't really accomplish anything except to gate you. If they do return and I don't feel like leveling my alt, I'll just mass produce materials before switching. Only people who prefer just picking up and crafting are hindered by this system. I'll admit, locking the end product is far better than the mats to make it, especially when some required four Specialists, but I just don't see the value. It doesn't provide much identity when you just switch Specialist based on market demands. Today I'm a expert chef; tomorrow a blacksmith. The new Specialist abilities are actually fairly strong, albeit undervalued since recipes aren't at all challenging right now.

[Elamys]

It is kind of a moot point now. It's unlikely SE's gonna go back to the old system. I guess the big problem is how underwhelming the system feels.