Why do all y'all want to change SMN so much?

[Angry_Evil]

I'm letting people have a taste of their own medicine (please see below):

What the hell? THis people are not even in this thread ahahaha...

Smn discussions really attract the strangest audience huh

I think the problem with smn is that it's a class that doesn't know what it wants to be. You have a dot class with weak summons that now mostly does weak fillers, and then has a slight damage boost during trance that ends in a big boom. Then, have to do trance twice to get a big summon that does the same boom as you a couple of times. Personally, I don't have a problem with the egis, but the damage is too locked behind Bahamut, so if you die, your damage is just gone. Also, the fillers are now so weak that it just feels awful to have to spam a pathetic potency ruin over and over. Also Ruin III does so little damage, that trance just seems totally pointless now. It just feels like they are throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the SMN to see what sticks.

Yeah I feel like that too. It's really "jack of all trades" type of situation... Our DoTs are really weak too btw...
If they at least made 4.0 SMN with 3.0 aetherflow and balanced r3 mp requirements(it's like what? 20% weaker? no reason for it to cost old amount of mp then) I think I would manage without raging too much... But even then playing smn would not be exactly fun...

[FateAudax]

What the hell? THis people are not even in this thread ahahaha...

because they're related to SMN (arcanist/scholar).

Nah, Sustain doesn't need to make a comeback. Just learn to Physick your own pets. If you can't even do that, you don't deserve a pet.

[Angry_Evil]

because they're related to SMN (arcanist/scholar)

I hope you'll realize how silly you're acting right now...

P.S.: I stopped giving a damn since HW, when all the non-Bard players came into our thread and told us that the casting time was perfectly fine. Since people can do that, I believe I reserve the same rights.

How exactly is this relevant to anything in this thread? Yeah it's not, you know it. I think you know what you should do next too.

[Angry_Evil]

Nah, Sustain doesn't need to make a comeback. Just learn to Physick your own pets. If you can't even do that, you don't deserve a pet.

What is this nonsense

[FateAudax]

What is this nonsense

The kind of salt everybody loves. Let's face it, people come here for the salt. All threads ends up with everyone up in the throat with each other. I'm just casting Hastega here.

[-Yuuna-]

Okay so I really don't get it. Every time I go to a SMN post looking for changes in terms of numbers and small things I always find that y'all want to change everything about the job from the ground up. It makes no sense to me that people want it remade to their personal standards rather than want to improve what we've got. Always with the FF11 comparison and the "I want big summons", and rarely any actual constructive criticism on where the job could go from here.

If anyone has some idea for improvements based on what we've got I'd love to hear it.

I'll try to give you a complete answer. For that I quote myself from another thread:

After playing SMN for some weeks since 4.0 release and read a lot of threads about it, I got my own opinion. Bahamut, Devotion and Bane is a point any longer, but not the most important.

I really hate Bahamut, because of him I couldn't see every mechanics (like the cloud in Susano) and I wiped a party (yeah I wiped a party in Susano, because I saw the cloud too late, shame on me -_-). My problem at this point is: I have no chance to take him away, not so close to me and I'm really glad that they will add a function to reduce his size, I hope that solve the problem.
Devotion…what shall I say about Devotion? I cannot choose at the group list who should get the buff. I have to move my egi. Yeah…I’ll never move my egi again (if it’s not REALLY necessary). I tried it so many times and at the most tries some other player are moving and the buff never hit the person I wanted to get. It also needs a lot of time to place the egi. So they have two options to fix this: Let us choose the player at our group list or let Devotion be a group buff for everyone (with a higher cd or not so strong – if the developer think 5% at all is too strong).
Bane got a huge nerf, but at the moment we just need it in dungeons. So it will be fine, I think. Playing SMN in dungeons works. We can do enough damage to clear it fast. BLM has a better AOE damage, but that’s okay for me.
I want my pet heal back. They can delete Physick for that, this is a skill no one need it at SMN. I totally agree with Yoshi if he says: You wanna heal? Play RDM.

4.0 SMN feels like the developer team designed it for dungeon runs and maybe the 24 man raids – we will see it in the future. And I think they want that we cannot move very much with Bahamut at our side, to reduce the SMN movement.
The Aetherflow change yesterday is a step in the right direction. Good player will not see any difference, but for the others it is a big change. They didn’t need to wait a lot of time to get the stack back. Changes like this can reduce the cap between casuals and elite. That’s what SE want, right? But this change alone didn’t fix the class problems. In the last years SE told us that BRD and MCH have a lot of supporting skills, because of that they have not a big damage. We didn’t get a lot of supporting skills, so why is our damage worse?
If we didn’t have a lot of supporting skills and get a worse damage, the people see no reason to grab a SMN for raid. And this is a big problem. We all shall be able to use pf for raid, but a lot of players are not really enjoy a SMN in the party.

We cannot use Aetherflow abilities in trance, so it might be easier. I heard from SMN starters and ppl who didn’t play this class very often that they love the change, because the rotation feels more fluent and easier for them now.
SMN is very often declared as an easy job. I think that’s the problem here. The developers didn’t see that we have a higher effort to get good damage.

So you can see that I have no problem with the old egis. At the first weeks I played SMN, I was really confused that so sweet carbuncles are replaced for Garuda, Ifrit and Titan (because they seems to be really ugly). But in the last years, I began to love my sweet little fly (Garuda). So I didn’t want to change it any longer. Titan looks like a big rock, in my eyes it fits with a giant rock what the normal Titan is for me. The only one I didn’t like is Ifrit and with the possibility to change the egi glamour that problem is fixed in my eyes.
I didn’t think that a lot of people want “really big” summons since Bahamut was add ingame. We all are able to see why the old egis with a smaller size are better and with more egi glamour, the most of the people should be satisfied.

Angry_Evil posted a good description why some changes at R3 are not really useful:

After clearing O1S and O2S I really feel that mp restrictions of ruin3 are not justified anymore with it being so weak. With r3 spam you can barely hold your 3.8k somewhat dps between bahamut bursts. Probably even if they make it free and let us spam it instantly instead of r2 DPS won't go up too much lol... cause we still need to deal with stupid lining up of everything... ugh. Also kinda sucks that nin does kinda more DPS than me while bringing much better utility and being if not easier to play then at least not as poorly designed.
Also with BLM buff smn rly became pointless weakest caster.
rip
PS
Delaying pulls after wipe cause you need to wait for aetherflow sucks... SE need to address this somehow...

because they're related to SMN (arcanist/scholar).

Nah, Sustain doesn't need to make a comeback. Just learn to Physick your own pets. If you can't even do that, you don't deserve a pet.

Haha, you are really funny. We can see that you feel boring at work For the thread opener, I’ll describe why Physick need to be replaced: I can heal my pet with Physick for around 500-600 HP. But if it gets damage, it hits for more than 1000. So if you play with titan as a tank or your egi gets poison or you try to choose ifrit (it’s a melee, so it gets more damage) -> RIP egi.
If you need more information, please look into some other SMN threads. There are a lot of good ideas and critiques

[Pyitoechito]

Nah, Sustain doesn't need to make a comeback. Just learn to Physick your own pets. If you can't even do that, you don't deserve a pet.

The problem with this is twofold. For one, Physick still scales with Mind for Arcanist and Summoner, so the amount of healing from casting Physick is abysmal (it's almost a wasted slot). For two, wasting multiple GCDs to heal a pet is a sizable DPS loss, but at the same time losing the pet is also a DPS loss (Pet's missing DPS + MP and time wasted resummoning).

It would really help if there was something there to help keep the pet alive. Perhaps Rouse could be given the effect of Sustain for its duration, so the pet has a nice auto-regen with about 33% up-time.