[SUGGESTION] Tie PvP Experience to Point Results

[Shut]

[EDIT] I should have added having fun too.

[Sylvina]

Freelancer is for mercs with no loyalty.

[Dizhonor]

Just going to say this: Before the xp nerf all I ever saw was people trying to win, and trying to enjoy themselves. Ever since the xp nerf all I ever see is people giving up when they do not have the lead. People have become more insulting, and less prone to trying to work together.

People are still trying to win, and still trying to enjoy themselves. How is that a solution to the problem I outlined?

Ever since the xp nerf all I ever see is people giving up when they do not have the lead. People have become more insulting, and less prone to trying to work together.

People were doing this before the "xp nerf" (correction: BALANCING). And they aren't doing it "more" than they were then. You can say otherwise, but then, your saying it doesn't make it true. Also, how is that a solution to the problem I outlined?

They have also been starting to go "looks like *insert GC here* got the bot team this time". And coinciding with the nerfed XP we have seen a large influx of bots, and also probably a large exodus of people who actually try leaving it making it more likely for entire teams to be bots instead of entire teams being people who try cause to be frank...

Cool story. How is that a solution to the problem I outlined?

Frontlines pvp sucks and you get more xp and tomestones running potd for the same amount of time excluding poetics.

Play POTD if you want the soul sucking gaming experience. Also, how is that a solution to the problem I outlined?

So you want to nerf the xp further? Go right ahead, all its going to do is make the bot problem worse because the people playing and trying for the xp are going to give up and just run potd again because it is consistently good xp, not sometimes to rarely good xp.

If you give people MORE xp for scoring MORE points, how is that a nerf precisely? It rewards results.

Also GC affiliation still matters because everyone who unlocked frontlines before the freelancer default on change (aka the vast majority of the people playing) have theirs default to off, and the majority of people (especially the ones who do not read patch notes) do not even know the freelancer option even exists.

Nope.

Yeeah like PVP needs further nerfs. Anyone notice how the amount of bots skyrocketed AFTER they nerfed the XP for losers? just return it to an equal high amount of XP for all participants and ignore the whiners. You do want people to queue for pvp right SE?

Nope.

If you ever think that it would have never skyrocketed without the xp nerf, then you're completely wrong. When a broken system is exploited, more and more will go for it, especially since most people in FF are taking the "muh pvp" meme as fact. ANyone that had pvp'd a lot before know that very well because it already happened: first season of feast when ppl afk'd/botted/threw match, other seasons of feast with cheaters/wintraders.

Those that made bot scripts didn't said: "hey, pvp gives exp for nothing, let's wait for it to be nerfed to promote and sell our shit"

Exactly.

And no, no free candies for everyone. You're last, that's a game over, in every other games in the world, you don't get anything when you have a game over. You have accepted in any other video games that you're, at least, not gonna get the same rewards as the winner, or even no rewards at all. you even accepted it for garo event, anyone I've seen either here or on reddit that asked for defeat to count for a garo mount got told to shut up. And isn't that a bit ridiculous for a community that criticized players that lvl'd with PotD/jump potions to promote pvp for lvling, which is by far worse than PotD for understanding jobs mechanics in PvE? In before we got thread with "OMG those players that lvl'd in PvP are sooooo bad"

Truth.

You have no idea what you are talking about and it isn't clear that you even read my post. Please don't hassle me with your ignorance again.

Actually, I do. And it wasn't from a Google search. Sorry.

Freelancer is for mercs with no loyalty.

Okay?

[TankHunter678]

People are still trying to win, and still trying to enjoy themselves. How is that a solution to the problem I outlined?

The core of your idea is to ultimately nerf the xp more for losers even more then it already is. Making your suggestion not a solution to the problem, but just making the problem worse as it will make people feel even worse about their odds and prefer to just get the current match over even faster, even if they have to feed to do it.

People were doing this before the "xp nerf" (correction: BALANCING). And they aren't doing it "more" than they were then. You can say otherwise, but then, your saying it doesn't make it true. Also, how is that a solution to the problem I outlined?

From everything I saw, and what was reading here on the forums? People were not complaining about bots, but were talking about how good pvp was. The pvp xp gets nerfed? Nothing but complaints about bots, defeatists, afks. Oh and, I hate it when people tear apart a post, which is the entire argument, just to piece meal respond.

Cool story. How is that a solution to the problem I outlined?

Cool story, you offer no true solution to the problem only a way for making it even worse.

Play POTD if you want the soul sucking gaming experience. Also, how is that a solution to the problem I outlined?

Frontline PvP post xp change became a soul sucking gaming experience. I went from cooperative teams trying to win to defeatist teams when the team gets clobbered early on or entire teams of people saying nothing and moving in clumps cause they are bots. Bonus points for someone on the team screaming at everyone in alliance chat stuck in rage mode because the team is losing. This would only get worse with your suggestion.

If you give people MORE xp for scoring MORE points, how is that a nerf precisely? It rewards results.

Your suggestion goes by the overall team score, something far beyond any individual players ability to shift. It is also based on people with less score getting less reward.

A better suggestion would be to standardize the xp, win or lose, like it was before the xp change and then implement a system where a player pushes themselves to beat certain break points and have those break points "graded". For example few deaths could grant a gold rating in that category, 10 kills could also grant a silver (or gold depending on the break value set) rating. Doing 100k damage to ice could result in a gold rating. Etc, etc, then you have all these ratings tallied up, with each rating a fixed XP boost value that stacks to a total XP boost.

Thus the individual player gets considerably more xp for pushing themselves as hard as they could to try, while the person who does not only gets the base.

Just like a person who goes above and beyond to turn in high quality items for the grand company supply turn ins gets double the reward over the lazy guy who only turns in normals.

And if everyone is trying to do their best to score as high a personal rating as possible then the team should be more likely to win, or recover from a bad start and score second place with a close first.

[Dizhonor]

The core of your idea is to ultimately nerf the xp more for losers even more then it already is.

No. WRONG. "Losers" can get more XP by scoring more points. ALMOST AS MUCH as a "winner." For example, if your team scores 99% of the possible points, you can earn 99% of the possible experience (vs. the 66% or whatever for 2nd place that is currently the value).

From everything I saw, and what was reading here on the forums? People were not complaining about bots, but were talking about how good pvp was. The pvp xp gets nerfed? Nothing but complaints about bots, defeatists, afks. Oh and, I hate it when people tear apart a post, which is the entire argument, just to piece meal respond.

You simply can't base your view (and expect any reliable accuracy) from such a small sampling. Especially when it seems obvious (from comments below) that you're getting your information almost entirely from the forums!!!

Your suggestion goes by the overall team score, something far beyond any individual players ability to shift.

I can't process this statement... if you kill a player, you "shift" the overall team score. If you damage ice, you "shift" the overall team score. Do you even PVP?

A better suggestion would be to standardize the xp, win or lose, like it was before the xp change and then implement a system where a player pushes themselves to beat certain break points and have those break points "graded". For example few deaths could grant a gold rating in that category, 10 kills could also grant a silver (or gold depending on the break value set) rating. Doing 100k damage to ice could result in a gold rating. Etc, etc, then you have all these ratings tallied up, with each rating a fixed XP boost value that stacks to a total XP boost. Thus the individual player gets considerably more xp for pushing themselves as hard as they could to try, while the person who does not only gets the base.

You clearly didn't read my original post. You can't do it this way without punishing players who are engaging in (for example) distractions to draw enemy players away from key positions, or dividing their forces, et cetera. It's just not possible to quantify all of the actions a player could perform that contributes to your teams points/ victory.

And if everyone is trying to do their best to score as high a personal rating as possible then the team should be more likely to win, or recover from a bad start and score second place with a close first.

If you get the same XP for 2nd place in the base, or in the field fighting, there is no incentive for "trying to do their best to score as high a personal rating as possible." The whole point to my suggestion is to provide an incentive.

[TankHunter678]

No. WRONG. "Losers" can get more XP by scoring more points. ALMOST AS MUCH as a "winner." For example, if your team scores 99% of the possible points, you can earn 99% of the possible experience (vs. the 66% or whatever for 2nd place that is currently the value).

Currently they get 70% for not winning, but with your idea a person could try as much as they can, but only get 30% of the xp because regardless of their personal contribution the team sucked.

You simply can't base your view (and expect any reliable accuracy) from such a small sampling. Especially when it seems obvious (from comments below) that you're getting your information almost entirely from the forums!!!

And personal experience because hey there is something you forgot...

I can't process this statement... if you kill a player, you "shift" the overall team score. If you damage ice, you "shift" the overall team score. Do you even PVP?

I can smash an ice all by myself, only for my greedy team to get caught in a pincer and all die, wasting all of my effort. I can score a couple kills, only for my team to die as they try to take a big ice that is dominated by an entire team cause one side is more focused on killing my team, thus wasting all impact I personally had.

I see this all the time, in every game. If you do not see it then maybe you are not paying attention to the map. So to answer your question, Yes I did pvp, but the xp reward and the heavily slanted loss rate I get makes it not worth it anymore. Its very easy for all personal contribution to mean nothing because trying to get a team of defeatists and bots to work together is like trying to herd cats.

You clearly didn't read my original post. You can't do it this way without punishing players who are engaging in (for example) distractions to draw enemy players away from key positions, or dividing their forces, et cetera. It's just not possible to quantify all of the actions a player could perform that contributes to your teams points/ victory.

But the stuff we do already have quantified we can reward and incentivize people to pursue without punishing people because their team sucks.

If you get the same XP for 2nd place in the base, or in the field fighting, there is no incentive for "trying to do their best to score as high a personal rating as possible." The whole point to my suggestion is to provide an incentive.

By the sound of things you did not even read my idea.

You idea does not provide an incentive, because when people get bad teams there is nothing they can do. They will be punished because they landed on a bad team.

My idea incentivizes them to play to the objectives to the best of their ability, because they will get an XP bonus according to their contribution and efforts irregardless of the performance of their team as a whole. As long as they played smart, they could even get more xp then most of the winning team who got carried. So that even if their team lost, they still won in the end cause they tried.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Freelancer is for mercs with no loyalty.

Or people who just wanted to be able to play with their friends who were in a different GC, maybe?

[TankHunter678]

Or people who just wanted to be able to play with their friends who were in a different GC, maybe?

Yay for auto forced freelancer on parties for that. It was nice running pvp with my FC buddies.

[Shut]

Just going back to the main point of this topic before it turns into a shitshow.

The main idea is to tie points to both team's place and individual efforts, which is certainly a legitimate way of rewarding peoples that participated in the match, based on numbers mostly. Such a system is certainly complex to make but not impossible, there are however few things that need to be reworked:

- rework how healings count: 1st overhealing are currently counted as healing done in match, so nothing hard for a WHM bot to get max reward. 2nd sch shield isn't counted as healing done.

- make sure it is not too easy: if even bots and afkers can earn good exp, then this system won't work

- hire more GM, make an efficient report system flagging those spotted as botters, reduce timers for kick and gives actual punishements: every cheater banned so far only had a few day ban, and you could see lot of them going back to botting. Remember that case about a BLM that cheated to get top parses and even Yoshi-P took position on this case? well, that guy has been seen cheating on S2 or S3 of feast. But it's not an isolated case: almost no one got actual punishement for disrupting matches in S1. Other seasons, no wintrader got punished at all.

Btw, about people leaving pvp because they will need to move their ass a bit. According to some prophets on similar threads, queues are already dead since 4.01. And I don't mind geting 8/8/8 when I'm queueing at 3AM.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Yay for auto forced freelancer on parties for that. It was nice running pvp with my FC buddies.

Auto forced Freelancer was a result of people abusing the system by NOT using it. I recall a few times 3 premades within one GC all queueing non-Freelancer at the same time so that they would form one full premade alliance and just stomp all over everyone. People complained. People always complained about premades, and while there's nothing wrong with forming a team with your friends, what they did was a bit extreme, and even I think so.