4.05 MCH is Weak

[Bernkastelx]

I honestly don't see why they just didn't try reverting the overheat 20%-10% change, 2 weeks ago when they did the baby class patch and told us to wait till 4.05. They didn't have to go through this whole messing with unnecessary heat gain changes. Making the small amount of mch players even more frustrated. Also that mch nerf in pvp in patch notes had me cracking up. They will nerf gauss barrel dmg% but again refuse to buff overheat dmg% in pve.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

As far as PvP goes, it's easily overlooked that reloads increase the potency of your attacks and doesn't impact heat at all. You can literally freeze your heat gauge wherever you want it and deal high damage if you shoot>reload>shoot>reload. . . and trust me when I say I didn't miss that 5% at all. Granted, I play a very strong MCH in PvP, but the job is still plenty powerful even with just a 5% increase.

[Bernkastelx]

I wasn't complaining about the dmg in pvp and yes I agree pvp mch needed a change 3k dmg per shot when you had the second tier battle fever was ridiculous given mch mobility. The thing I was pointing out was how quick they were to mess with gauss dmg% in pvp but don't want to touch overheats dmg%.

[s3ystic]

As far as PvP goes, it's easily overlooked that reloads increase the potency of your attacks and doesn't impact heat at all. You can literally freeze your heat gauge wherever you want it and deal high damage if you shoot>reload>shoot>reload. . . and trust me when I say I didn't miss that 5% at all. Granted, I play a very strong MCH in PvP, but the job is still plenty powerful even with just a 5% increase.

Well there you have it! Maybe SE made a mistake and MCH was supposed to be a PvP only job! Too powerful for PvE! That has got to the new balance issues, it all makes sense now! Some jobs will play well in PvP and others will play well in PvE. I've been in those types of games before so i guess I can bury it and PvP only with it. If that's what SE really wants. (To clarify, while i quoted the person above, the sarcasm was not directed at them, but rather at SE who obviously separated two play-styles and ignores one over the other.)

[AmandaLashaquoa]

4.05 being still weak is the least of the problems now (and it is a big one, because not only the previous issues remain, but now the job is not fun) the job is just plain boring now, its all about hoping for procs until WF is up, one full minute of doing absolutely nothing but pressing buttons and hoping for the best.
Every now and then you throw and eventual Cooldown, socked ammo in, trigger procs with them and wait until WF.
I was only raiding with my MCH in 4.0 and now I don't even feel good using it to walk around Rhalgr's because the changes really ruined the job for me, and I loved MCH since I first saw it when I started playing (in late HW), I am having more fun lvling my BRD now.
I won't say for PvP because I don't care for PvP, I don't care if MCH is still "so gud" in PvP because that's not what I play, I play PvE and only care about how it is in PvE and its NOT nice. (I do agree that mch in pvp IS cool though)
If MCH is a PvP job now, yeah, I suppose its not for me; In fact, I am changing my "Main Class" on the forums to BRD.

[Ephier]

As far as PvP goes, it's easily overlooked that reloads increase the potency of your attacks and doesn't impact heat at all. You can literally freeze your heat gauge wherever you want it and deal high damage if you shoot>reload>shoot>reload. . . and trust me when I say I didn't miss that 5% at all. Granted, I play a very strong MCH in PvP, but the job is still plenty powerful even with just a 5% increase.

I agree. I never DPSed in PvP until SB. I used 8v8s to farm verity. In my runs roughly 60~70, I went from 0 kills to over 400. MCH was literally an insta gib god. Turn GB on, 2 hotshots 1heated split on box, get offense buff, load 3 ammo proceed to carry game. I am quite sure I wasn't the only one who thought MCH did too much damage in pvp. Literally took 6~7 secs to 100 to 0 a DPS.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Stormblood's MCH in PvP is still strong, but in Heavensward. . .

[Fannah]

To the autor : When I saw how long was your text (I still am a good adventurer and was ready to read it all) I felt relieve to see you just doubled it by mistake x) So if you didn't realize, you should cut the half of this impressive text :3

To the others, I'm surprised no one said a word about this "overheat is always a dps loss"
Edit : I'm glad you have someone who helped you to correct it all, but it was long to write it on my side, so I let it as it is.
Edit 2 : As I saw you edited your post, please remove the doubled part^^"
Edit 3 : Erf I used a boost of 30 per ammunition instead of 25... values changed, but it ended to be another small dps gain because I mistyped something else at a moment, that's what happen when you write all night.

Tl;dr : I gained a total of 149potency after counting gain and loss with my way to play (so a lot more than the 7 and less that you found). And my way to use it is not even optimal as I tried to use a very easy setup. And I didn't count ally buffs and Hypercharge.

For the difference with or without overheat to wildfire, you forgot :
- the difference with Ricochet and Gauss Round. I'm not saying it's a lot but still, if you use Wildfire everytime it's up, you will have Ricochet and Gauss Round in it with your overheat.
- You also forgot Hot shot's bonus --> it's actually a multiplicative bonus, so it will make the difference wider, it's kinda what the machinist always was about, it's that part when you stack all bonus and oGCD to make an amazing short burst rotation.
- You also didn't take in count you can use hypercharge every other wildfire, which is still another multiplicative bonus of *1.05 (I didn't count it in my final dmg for now)
- On top of that, I just have like 4 gcd while my gauss barrel is coming back, not 5 as we don't have Rapid Fire anymore for this phase. Remember bonus dmg are applied if you start your animation with the buffs, you don't need to have it when it lands dmg, that means to have 5GCD in 10sec, you would need a GCD of less than 2sec and starting it at start of the timer. So yea, it's 4 GCD during those 10sec without Gauss barrel/overheat's bonus.
- You also forgot Reassemble for a 100% crit on the Clean Shot. It could have crit anyway, but it's still a viable way to be sure about that, being another multiplier upgrading the dmg. But I agree it's more complicated to calculate the difference to speak in a simple way.

Btw, I just never was sure about how to count the bonus from Gauss Barrel when overheating.
If :
A) it's a 5% becoming 10% (I don't think it's this one)
B) it's a 5% becoming 15% (why not, it's from the same skill after all)
C) it's a 5% with a separated multiplicative 10% (so dmg*1.05*1.1) (I believe it's this one but maybe I'm wrong).
D) Obiwan Kenobi

I tend to believe it's B or C (everyone would prefer the C but I don't know how it is currently, I will use C anyway).

I'm not saying it's optimal, but just by doing it this very simple way
When 95 Heat : Quick Reload + Combo 1
Hot shot to overheat + Rapid Fire / Reload / Wildfire
Combo 2 (255P -> ammo) + Reassemble
Combo 3 (295P[crit] -> ammo) + Ricochet (300P)
Cooldown (255P -> ammo)
Cooldown (230P) + Gauss Round (200P) (so the next Gauss Round will be when the Gauss Barrel will be up)
Cooldown (230P)

Total potency while overheating : (255+295[crit]+300+255+230+200+230)*1.05*1.08*1.1*1.25 = 1765*1.05*1.08*1.1*1.25 = 2752P

Same rotation without overheating (which is impossible as overheat allows you to spam Cooldown, but let's say for realism that you do the Combo 1 instead of the 1rst of my Cooldown so you will get a proc for Combo 2, making you lose just 40 potency if Combo 3 doesn't proc, and same total potency if it does) : 1725*1.05*1.08*1.25 = 2445P
1765*1.05*1.08*1.25 = 2502P

2752-2445 = 307P
2752-2502 = 250P

It's kinda far from the 157P you found. It's even almost twice as powerful.

Now, to get the difference, we are in a phase of 10sec without any boost. With only 4 GCD. The worst being 160*4 while you will be at worse at 190*4 +5%
160*4 = 640P.
190*4*1.05 = 798P.

798-640 = 158P
You gained 158 potency thanks to those 10sec with overheat I don't have, while I will have gained 307P compared to you (or 250P according to your luck, while mine is constant).
307 - 158 = 149P.

So I would have won a bit more than 149P (as the crit has not be taken in count, but having the +10% would make the difference a bit bigger again). It seems still small, but we can again make that difference bigger when allies will also buff the party. And if we time it right to burst a target, it can be even more worse if the boss jumps for a part of when we are not able to get Gauss barrel on.

The thing is I believe the machinist to be made to :
1 - fill the role of the range support : aka mainly giving TP/MP back for long fights (sad role)
2 - unlike Bard, Machinist is made to burst when it's needed to be less likely to have a team failing dps check. This is his way to help the team --> filling that support TP/MP role slot + making dps check phase easier (and wipe = loss of time too). So in a way, it's normal Bard has an overall bigger dps, actually, to still not be a real burden in those dps check phases he still have to be able to go through.

But I guess the problem is it means bards will always be designed to be enough for those dps check phases, so yea, what is the point in having a character just make it easier but less efficient overall, I guess. Well, there is the theorycraft and reality. With random people, better being the one carrying his team as a machinist will be more able to do than a bard would as you might be with too unskilled people to be good enough for those dps check phases.

[Ephier]

Yuh I added the math people posted to me on reddit. As I said someone would come correct me. I was like this napkin math can't be right but I'm too lazy. I appreciate the work and effort.

[Fannah]

What reddit post? x)

I just did it all by myself xD
Btw, the potency gain is bigger on mine. I'm wondering what was wrong on your side. Especially that I did a very easy setup, not optimized.

While you're here, can you eddit your current post? I think you don't get it. You just wrote twice your text in a row.
There is 2 "First, Quick Reload blablabla" and 2 "In conclusion, blablabla".

Edit : Thank you ^^