Thread: 4.05 MCH is Weak

Ok. So round two. I am here to explain why the new MCH changes are basically a wash and don't really add any significant damage to the class, still leaving it far behind the rest of the pack. I'm going to go down the list of changes and argue against or for them one by one. No whining, no QQ, just logical explanations of why I think that these changes are either good or bad.

First, Quick Reload no longer causing you to lose 10h when used. In a minute cycle between WF pre 4.05 you would lose 140 from ammo, 2x Reloads (60 heat lost) + 4x Quick Reload (80 heat lost). After 4.05 this has changed to 100 heat lost. This in of itself would have been fine, allowing for an extra cooldown between odd WFs and 2 cooldowns between even Wfs. But thats not how it works out, which goes to my next point.

Second heat reduction on ALL GCD skills. You went from generating 10 heat to 5 heat. This is not an issue its actually very good for new players trying to learn the job saving them from random overheats. Many would argue that you can't cooldown as much now. You need to understand cooldown is a 230 potency skill, the 123 combo avg potency is 230 potency. So losing cooldowns is not really a “loss”. While it was guaranteed damage, over the course of the fight the procs will even out enough to make up for any early losses you may have seen or vice versa.

So for the first two points, for me, its a mix of does not matter and pointless. The only people who had issues with 10 heat per GCD were people not used to the class. While the overheat mechanic is quite punishing to the uninitiated, once you got used to it, you stopped doing it randomly.

Third. Barrel Stabilizer. I know people are thinking soon as they saw this, YAY OVERHEAT EVERY WILDFIRE. Stop. Don't. Let me explain overheat and generally why it is “bad”. When you overheat you gain 10% damage for 10s, cool. But afterwards you lose 30 potency per GCD and 5% damage due to gauss barrel falling off. I'm sure someone will come to correct me, but lets get started with some basic napkin math. Lets say you get the overall highly favored CD323CD in your WF. That is 1255 potency. 1255 * 1.1 * 1.25 = 1725 (Overheated wildfire potency) vs 1255* 1.1 = 1568 (Non overheated wildfire potency). That is a 157 potency difference between the two. Cool a gain right? Lets continue. Now we come down to the -30 potency per gcd and -5% damage for 5 gcds. I'm pretty sure you can see where this is going. Before we even calculate the -5% dmg from autos and GCD you are already at -150 potency on your gain from those 5 GCDs. Yes, all that work to overheat, and you come out with a gain of 7 potency BEFORE calculating the 5% loss of gauss barrel. Do not let the change on barrel stabilizer con you into thinking that it is a gain to overheat every wf. It is a wash at best, a potential loss at worst. Overheat mechanic is best used before a phase change where you know boss will be gone or untargetable for an extended period of time minimizing the loss of not having GB up.

Fourth, 8% hot shot. I'm not even going to go in depth into this. Simply its not enough.

Finally, Overload. The only real gain and positive change MCH really received today. At 800 potency rook overload SHOULD always break even. If you crit or dhit, you have gotten a gain. The best part about overload is that in the opener you will use it right as POT/HC/TA is falling off, making it a very strong oGCD attack. It will always be a gain to use overload at the end of a HC/TA window (unless you know a phase change is soon), and now its an even better skill to use when you know boss will be gone for a while. Before it used to be 15s to break even, 18s to be a gain. Now its always worth to overload if boss will be gone for any period of time.

In conclusion, the changes are basically useless for anyone of skill with a MCH. The heat changes made entry into playing MCH a lot easier for new players. This is a good thing. But for the experienced this changed absolutely nothing for them. If anything it was more of an irritation. Overload buff is good, but they fell short with the hot shot buff. It simply just is not enough to raise current MCH damage to a respectable value. They are still bottom of the barrel and need some serious loving. Ok. So round two. I am here to explain why the new MCH changes are basically a wash and don't really add any significant damage to the class, still leaving it far behind the rest of the pack. I'm going to go down the list of changes and argue against or for them one by one. No whining, no QQ, just logical explanations of why I think that these changes are either good or bad.


Ghetto math has been fixed by Aiurily.

modifiers: hot shot, gauss barrel, wildfire, overheat
gcds in oh+wf: cooldown x5 minimum (1150 potency)
ogcds in oh+wf: ricochet+gr (500 potency)
4 auto attacks in oh+wf (assume 1 per 2.5s, 75 potency): (300 potency)
total potency in oh+wf minimum: 1950 potency
after hot/gb/wf modifier -> 2764.125 potency
add overheat modifier -> 3040.5375 potency
potency gain: 276.4125 potency
5 gcds following = 4 non-heated shot GCDs (averaged at 183 potency), 1 hot shot = total potency of 852
4 autos following oh = 300 potency
total potency during OH cooldown - 1152
total normal rotation potency - (4 heated @ 213p average, 1 hotshot) - 1335.6 after gb modifier
total potency lost from OH cooldown - 183.6
total potency gain: 92.8125~ potency
note: total potency gains increase more if we factor in IAD2 and multiplicative nature of FFXIV damage buffs, as well as raid buffs/debuffs which increase overheat synergy, including disembowel
note2: total potency gains also increase if we deviate from the baseline GCD of [cd cd cd cd cd]. if we perform [cd 323 cd], overheat net potency gain increases.
note3: this does not include potency from reassemble. you can estimate it at like 100+ or something. this also ends up making total potency gain from OHWF more worth it.
in total, you can expect something around 100-150 potency gain from OHWF depending on GCD conditions, external buffs, etc. it's a VERY small gain (and is unrewarding at times almost), but it's a gain nonetheless.

Originally Posted by Fannah

To the autor : When I saw how long was your text (I still am a good adventurer and was ready to read it all) I felt relieve to see you just doubled it by mistake x) So if you didn't realize, you should cut the half of this impressive text :3

To the others, I'm surprised no one said a word about this "overheat is always a dps loss"
Edit : I'm glad you have someone who helped you to correct it all, but it was long to write it on my side, so I let it as it is.
Edit 2 : As I saw you edited your post, please remove the doubled part^^"

Tl;dr : I gained a total of 144potency after counting gain and loss with my way to play (so a lot more than the 7 and less that you found). And my way to use it is not even optimal as I tried to use a very easy setup. And I didn't count ally buffs and Hypercharge.

For the difference with or without overheat to wildfire, you forgot :
- the difference with Ricochet and Gauss Round. I'm not saying it's a lot but still, if you use Wildfire everytime it's up, you will have Ricochet and Gauss Round in it with your overheat.
- You also forgot Hot shot's bonus --> it's actually a multiplicative bonus, so it will make the difference wider, it's kinda what the machinist always was about, it's that part when you stack all bonus and oGCD to make an amazing short burst rotation.
- You also didn't take in count you can use hypercharge every other wildfire, which is still another multiplicative bonus of *1.05 (I didn't count it in my final dmg for now)
- On top of that, I just have like 4 gcd while my gauss barrel is coming back, not 5 as we don't have Rapid Fire anymore for this phase. Remember bonus dmg are applied if you start your animation with the buffs, you don't need to have it when it lands dmg, that means to have 5GCD in 10sec, you would need a GCD of less than 2sec and starting it at start of the timer. So yea, it's 4 GCD during those 10sec without Gauss barrel/overheat's bonus.
- You also forgot Reassemble for a 100% crit on the Clean Shot. It could have crit anyway, but it's still a viable way to be sure about that, being another multiplier upgrading the dmg. But I agree it's more complicated to calculate the difference to speak in a simple way.

Btw, I just never was sure about how to count the bonus from Gauss Barrel when overheating.
If :
A) it's a 5% becoming 10% (I don't think it's this one)
B) it's a 5% becoming 15% (why not, it's from the same skill after all)
C) it's a 5% with a separated multiplicative 10% (so dmg*1.05*1.1) (I believe it's this one but maybe I'm wrong).
D) Obiwan Kenobi

I tend to believe it's B or C (everyone would prefer the C but I don't know how it is currently, I will use C anyway).

I'm not saying it's optimal, but just by doing it this very simple way
When 95 Heat : Quick Reload + Combo 1
Hot shot to overheat + Rapid Fire / Reload / Wildfire
Combo 2 (260P -> ammo) + Reassemble
Combo 3 (300P[crit]) + Ricochet (300P)
Cooldown (260P -> ammo)
Cooldown (230P) + Gauss Round (200P) (so the next Gauss Round will be when the Gauss Barrel will be up)
Cooldown (230P)

Total potency while overheating : (260+300[crit]+300+260+230+200+230)*1.05*1.08*1.1*1.25 = 1780*1.05*1.08*1.1*1.25 = 2775P

Same rotation without overheating (which is impossible as overheat allows you to spam Cooldown, but let's say for realism that you do the Combo 1 instead of the 1rst of my Cooldown so you will get a proc for Combo 2, making you lose just 40 potency if Combo 3 doesn't proc, and same total potency if it does) : 1740*1.05*1.08*1.25 = 2466P
1780*1.05*1.08*1.25 = 2523P

2775-2466 = 309P
2775-2523 = 252P

It's kinda far from the 157P you found. It's even almost twice as powerful.

Now, to get the difference, we are in a phase of 10sec without any boost. With only 4 GCD. The worst being 160*4 while you will be at worse at 190*4 +5%
160*4 = 640P.
190*4*1.05 = 798P.

798-640 = 158P
You gained 158 potency thanks to those 10sec with overheat I don't have, while I will have gained 309P compared to you (or 252P according to your luck, while mine is contant).
302 - 158 = 144P.

So I would have won a bit more than 144P (as the crit has not be taken in count, but having the +10% would make the difference a bit bigger again). It seems still small, but we can again make that difference bigger when allies will also buff the party. And if we time it right to burst a target, it can be even more worse if the boss jumps for a part of when we are not able to get Gauss barrel on.

The thing is I believe the machinist to be made to :
1 - fill the role of the range support : aka mainly giving TP/MP back for long fights (sad role)
2 - unlike Bard, Machinist is made to burst when it's needed to be less likely to have a team failing dps check. This is his way to help the team --> filling that support TP/MP role slot + making dps check phase easier (and wipe = loss of time too). So in a way, it's normal Bard has an overall bigger dps, actually, to still not be a real burden in those dps check phases he still have to be able to go through.

But I guess the problem is it means bards will always be designed to be enough for those dps check phases, so yea, what is the point in having a character just make it easier but less efficient overall, I guess. Well, there is the theorycraft and reality. With random people, better being the one carrying his team as a machinist will be more able to do than a bard would as you might be with too unskilled people to be good enough for those dps check phases.