Is anyone else dying to get to Garlemald?

[YianKutku]

We wouldn't be as technologically advanced without war, the most technologically advanced nations in history built that up out of necessity.

Broken window fallacy.

War tends to advance scientific research into militarily useful fields, that eventually get expanded into civilian uses in peacetime; the example that gets brought up is GPS. However, this also tends to freeze research into more blue-sky goals, like curing cancer or eradicating smallpox. This is also not including the damage war does to infrastructure, including that necessary for research.

In FFXIV, we've already seen one example of peace causing stagnation, viz the Allagan Empire. However, their wartime innovations cannot be said to be wholly beneficial (obviously), and we do know that Xande's attempts to speed up progress by executing one member of his research staff every day until they produced results is probably not the most efficient way of enhancing scientific research in all areas.

Overall, it is usually unquestioned that war brings with it much evil, regardless of the intent or justification. The debate is whether it is a necessary evil; anti-war proponents question the "necessary" part. Garlemald hiring Roegadyn battlemages to defend themselves against Hyuran raiders is probably necessary; Garlemald using magitek to conquer two and a half continents is probably not.

The War of the Sisters between Ul'dah and Sil'dih was four centuries ago. Ul'dah did commit at least one atrocity during the war - they used Traders' Spurn to turn the Sil'dihns into zombies.

There's also another incident that may or may not rise to the level of "atrocity", but is generally seen as pretty terrible. Before Ul'dah and Sil'dih were formally founded, the eventual prince of Sil'dih used the aetheryte network to ambush his enemy. The eventual prince of Ul'dah then destroyed an aetheryte while it was in use, causing eight hundred enemy soldiers to vanish without a trace.

This was seen as unconscionable enough that the Sharlayans, who set up the aetheryte network in the first place, shut down the whole thing until the civil war ended. I would not be surprised if this incident contributed greatly to Sharlayan's current isolationism, and its belief that Eorzeans are all warlike barbarians. After all, we clearly haven't shown any marked improvement in the six hundred years since.

[Alleo]

@Cilia: Oh I know but I thought I might mention the Ala Mhigo war before someone else will just post "but Eorzea had their wars too" even if they happened in the past. Anyway I cant see how the current city states would go to war against the core empire on their own will.

But I do like the idea of the WoL being captured by someone and we are a prisoner of Garlemald and kinda escape thanks to a rebellion inside of Garlemald. This would give us a chance to see their side without much influence but without the need of another big war with Eorzea.

@YianKutku: Exactly. We cant go around and say that war is necessary to advance the civilization. Even more since war created some really horrible bombs in real life..also there is always the question of "do we truly need that much advancement in technology? (But that is probably a discussion that is not good in this forum x)) And since we cant ever know how it would have went without war, we can never say that something like that is truly necessary.

At least in FF14 we know that many of the technological advanced states overdid it, grew too power hungry and caused their own downfall. (And a calamity on top of that) But I have nothing against a magitek kettle. :P

[YianKutku]

At least in FF14 we know that many of the technological advanced states overdid it, grew too power hungry and caused their own downfall. (And a calamity on top of that) But I have nothing against a magitek kettle. :P

It's kind of hilarious how the Calamities are essentially Second Verse Same As The First, when it comes to the hubris of mankind leading to their downfall. Of the seven Umbral Calamities we know of, the Second, Third, Fourth, and Sixth are (allegedly) due to Me Am Play Gods, and arguably the Seventh being a result of the Fourth. The only reason the First and Fifth Umbral Calamities aren't on the list is because we have no idea how they came about.

It does seem like there's this odd message that Industry and Progress cause disasters, with the Fifth Astral Era/Sixth Umbral Calamity being a search-and-replace of "technology" with "magic".

[VargasVermillion]

It does seem like there's this odd message that Industry and Progress cause disasters, with the Fifth Astral Era/Sixth Umbral Calamity being a search-and-replace of "technology" with "magic".

A lot of stories especially sci-fi ones cover themes like this, ever since the atomic bomb people assume technological progress will be humanities downfall. On that idea about the WoL being a prisoner of war, there are two ways i can see this being done, the first would be to have some of our allies held hostage and we have to run various errands for the emperor or someone else within garlemalds political circle where we can wander around freely under the pretense that we won't do anything stupid, the second could go similarly except we have some kind of link pearl implanted into our head that'll fry our brains if we don't comply.

[Kallera]

Faith doesn't seem to be doing much better.

[Matriqona]

-snip-

Pushing the idea that Eorzean Alliance could take and occupy Garlemald, is I think putting the suspension of disbelief inch too far away. It's like akin to writing a story how Mexico and Canada conquered the United States.

Another interesting thing at the moment though, is complete lacking of actual Garlean characters (By that I'm referring to once actually on the side of Garlean Empire.) There's the emperor but that's it.
I wonder, if they'll or when they will add new Garlean characters. We require our daily dose of big scary Garleans in their overly stylized 'cool' armors.

[Kallera]

Pushing the idea that Eorzean Alliance could take and occupy Garlemald, is I think putting the suspension of disbelief inch too far away. It's like akin to writing a story how Mexico and Canada conquered the United States.

Another interesting thing at the moment though, is complete lacking of actual Garlean characters (By that I'm referring to once actually on the side of Garlean Empire.) There's the emperor but that's it.
I wonder, if they'll or when they will add new Garlean characters. We require our daily dose of big scary Garleans in their overly stylized 'cool' armors.

I'm kinda hoping there are some characters that are garleans, but aren't inhuman....and not Cid.
I think I've come to hate Cid more than any other character involved. And it's not even a real hate like Thancred, but rather...he had the choice we do not, and apparently will never... have.

[EdwinLi]

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There are most likely a lot of good Garleans within Garlemald but can not escape nor defect from Garlemald because they have no means of leaving Garlemald or they believe they can change things from within their government system.

Every single Good Garlean we have met so far have only been able to escape and defect from Garlean Empire because they either had a personal means of transportation such as Cid and his airship or was already outside of Garlemald within a position to defect mostly as a member of a military sector.

It is very common tend right now that all Good garleans we know are Defectors.

[Kallera]

There are most likely a lot of good Garleans within Garlemald but can not escape nor defect from Garlemald because they have no means of leaving Garlemald or they believe they can change things from within their government system.

Every single Good Garlean we have met so far have only been able to escape and defect from Garlean Empire because they either had a personal means of transportation such as Cid and his airship or was already outside of Garlemald within a position to defect mostly as a member of a military sector.

It is very common tend right now that all Good garleans we know are Defectors.

I kinda find that ridiculous. especially if reform is what we (possibly) want. I guess were just that much a monster over there.

I just don't see a point, or anything we could replace it with. I see the point of reformation, but destroying the country feels terrible, and not the sort of terrible you can just reflect on in an afternoon and celebrate in the evening with Cid.

[Theodric]

They gave us the perfect candidate for a better relationship with Garlemald in the form of Regula. Then, just as they had him prove his heroic and honourable nature...they killed him off. It just baffles me. So far there hasn't been any acknowledgement of his sacrifice in the aftermath of his death. Part of me is concerned that he was only killed off to tie in with Yoshi-P trying to speak on behalf of players as to who they should and should not sympathise with. It really does feel heavy handed.

I'll retract the statement if something major comes of it such as Elidibus taking on the appearance of Regula to manipulate and toy with Varis...or the Scions decide to remember what Regula did for them and repay the favour by helping out a Garlemald aligned Garlean with a mutual problem in a similar manner. As it stands, though, if Elidibus isn't taking on Regula's appearance then the entire thing feels like a waste of a solid character. If Elidibus isn't pulling that particular trick then Regula could have stumbled upon the meeting with Elidibus, expressed his concerns to Varis and then perhaps after being told it was a 'necessity' he could have sought out the Warrior of Light in an attempt to find some way to prevent yet another Ascian tugging the strings of a prominent leader figure. It could simply be framed as Regula seeking to protect and save his beloved friend.

I'm also surprised that nobody in the main cast stops to consider that maybe the Ascians are behind all of the conflict. Especially since that is correct. Elidibus first manipulated the Warriors of Darkness and then gave the Eyes of Nidhogg to Ilberd. Did the Scions even work out how he got them? He was holding them in the final cutscene of Baelsar's Wall, if I recall correctly. The Griffin's actions brought forth Shinryu which Zenos then exploited as a consequence. Then, of course, there's Omega.

It just feels 'off' to me. They know full well that Elidibus is out there somewhere...along with other Ascians.