Feedback: Please do not lower Paladin damage.

[Dizzy_Derp]

I had personally sword oathed 100% of A9S-A11S when it was relevant... A12S I have watched dark knights go gritless the entire thing and the only thing stopping PLD was that our blocks did nothing for magic damage. Again if they try to make that extra mitigation a necessity, then they will make the content unclearable without a PLD

I mean that would be broken if they got something like trick. And I don't see how the mitigation us an issue at all. There has never been a savage that required any tank stance at all, barring early prog on a12s for might add and a8s for robots on ice I can't think of any time any co tank or I had to be in tank stance. They simply can't make enough damage for it to be viable.

[Bravely_Default]

Sorry for the double post, phone is bugging out

[SunAurel]

snip
Yes we need a DPS nerf, but we NEED DPS UTILITY, not HEALER/DEFENSIVE utility.

Exactly, the problem will always be the general raid design that will make Paladins utility less valued because our utility is situational/optional unlike straight up more dps, and as long as you can skip phases via better dps the higher-dps tanks will always be the better choice.

pld needs offensive group utility and not more group mitigation. IMO they should replace cover (we already have a better one with Intervention now imo, it's at least not a suicide button most of the time and does not have such a short range) with a group damage buff for burst phases or sth like Dragon Sight. they might have to tweak PLD's personal dps down but then at least the 'support/group utility' theme would fit as the party wouldn't get too much of a damage loss by taking a pld.

SE's balancing goal should not be that groups that take a DRK/WAR have overall more dps than a group with PLD/DRK for example, but that every tank enables the party to do the same amount of damage, either through their own dps (WAR) or their group utility (PLD) (drk should be in the middle)

[DWolfwood]

Yes we need a DPS nerf, but we NEED DPS UTILITY, not HEALER/DEFENSIVE utility.

In agreement

It sounds like both of you have a problem with the very core of PLD's design. Everyone, including the dev team it seems, wants variety in how PLD contributes its DPS to the raid, meaning we want PLD to allow higher raid DPS by means of healing.

However, it seems you would rather things be much less interesting by having PLD just be a DPS tank and homogenize healing/support utility.

It basically sounds like you want all tanks to be the same, just with different animations.

[Dizzy_Derp]

It sounds like both of you have a problem with the very core of PLD's design. Everyone, including the dev team it seems, wants variety in how PLD contributes its DPS to the raid, meaning we want PLD to allow higher raid DPS by means of healing.

However, it seems you would rather things be much less interesting by having PLD just be a DPS tank and homogenize healing/support utility.

Never gonna happen, pld is supposed to have the most raid utility and need "protect the party" skills, not the most damage. We messed up and have them the highest dps, they plan to fix that which they should.

[SunAurel]

Though everything you said is about pld having both defensive and offensive utility. if drk should be in the middle, give them the trick attack like skill, while pld contributes to the party with their defensive kit taking stress off healers, and war having their own personal dps

The thing is does pld really do that consistently and noticeable?
A 5k hp shield every 2 minutes that needs heal activation?

A group def buff only useful for phase transitions and doesn t let you attack?

A godmode that you are only able to use once in a Fight + Sentinel still on an unjustifiable long cd compared to Vengeance

And cover still requires you to do Healing bc you take dmg and if there is unfortunate timing or a heal doesn t notice then goodnight

And while clemency is powerful you should use the mp for holy spirit

I guess a good method would be to compare the healer dps/heals needed with pld mt runs and drk mt runs by the same group, i might suggest that to my group later though it's only Lakshmi farm but hey maybe I'll be wiser

I think esp DV needs a lower cd if they want to achieve that + finally affect yourself and PoA effect has to active not when the animation ends, but when you start it

Granted our current examples are Lakshmi and Susano but our healers don't really notice a difference if I use my kit or not

[aqskerorokero]

I really don't wanna get in a long useless argument, but do war and drk do what they should do consistently as well? And tbh, I can't judge about plds helping with their defensive kit, since I haven't seen one really does use it to its full potentials.

And I'd like to say again that pld will never even be near the spot it was in in HW

Yea, I actually used passage of arms at full potential only once during susano kill run.....with party nearly wiped, healer low on mp and with aoe damage incoming, that one saved the party. After that I used it only for minor things.....

[Kothos]

OP is not able to understand that you can't have the best utility and the best dps on the same job. That was the problem with warrior 3.0...

[Faeon]

They might not lower the potency, as the answer they gave in the LL was vague. They might increase the cast time and or both increase the recast time, that way it won't line up with Requiescat to boost its damage. If they do lower the potency it would probably go to 200 or they will lower the potency of Requiescat.

[Aleisterz]

I'll be frank. It's cause you suck at paladin. Played optimally PLD is doing the highest damage atm and it's one of the easiest to play at that level to boot. After you do your opener it's literally line up Req windows as often as possible. Or is being able to cast 4-5 ranged fellcleaves that hit harder than fell cleave not enough damage for you?

Yup, I agree. you suck at playing paladin basically if you think the other two are way stronger. The math is in, don't QQ because you can't play the class well Zumi.