Feedback: Please do not lower Paladin damage.

[Bravely_Default]

Fights are going to be designed to be clearable with either combination of tanks... because of this players are going to go for what they always have, extra dps to push phases. we are probably going to see the trend from 3.0+ continue. PLD should not do more DPS then the other tanks, however, extra mitigation is useless to players that can push their classes to the absolute maximum. The third difficulty tiers SE plans on adding may or may not be a different story depending on what they go about doing, but it will likely still be set up for all 3 tanks in mind.

[Bravely_Default]

Also tanks have always been able to maintain 100% dps uptime in savage fights with a party that knew what they were doing... tanks still can maintain that 100% even now without a paladin. The job skillset just adds another defensive buffer to the party.

[LadyCeles]

4.0 PLD doesnt allow both tanks to stay in dps stance. Ucould always do that. But shirk makes it easier. Now of ur talking about intervention, DRK has the with TDN too.

[DWolfwood]

Fights are going to be designed to be clearable with either combination of tanks... because of this players are going to go for what they always have, extra dps to push phases..

See the problem with this is, PLD is highest DPS pre-4.05, and a nerf for one class is the same as a buff for every other class. They're doing both, but most do not expect the DPS difference to be all that great. Furthermore, PLD's contribution to lessen the amount of healing received by the party contribute to raid DPS via Hallowed Ground, Intervention, Divine Veil, Passage of Arms, and higher passive mitigation. Raid-wide mitigation isn't all about survival, though PLD does significantly also increase a progression's chances at that as well.

Losing out on a single Holy Spirit per window is such an inconsequential nerf, less so when you consider PLD loses no gauge now.

DRK has a lot more reason to worry as of now considering they have a broken kit to begin with and only offer a 10% HP shield as their sole utility while still lacking the utility of DPS as in WAR's case.

[LadyCeles]

ubmake it sound so ok. But it doeant just affect 1 HS. It affect 20% of HS with RQ buff and delays GB. Its a double wammy. Its a hige fps loss

[Comrade_uri]

I don't like this nerf, to say otherwise would be a lie but I do like the WAR and DRK changes. Biggest reason I don't like it is because some say it's a cast time thing and others say is a potency need, I don't know is which is right

That said PLD is still viable. A WAR or DRK MT can stay in DPS stance longer with a PLD OT. We can use provoke and then shirk to give more hate ( never tried it, will it work?) We can add mitigation to them with our job skill plus cd on it or use cover allowing them to still do the high damage. This might not be the end of the world

Maybe I'm wrong in thinking this but it's worth a try

[Gravton]

Yeah and I'm trying to point out the pro's over the cons. Plds mitigation allows lower skilled players to maximize dps stance. The devs aren't designing to fit a meta. Wether you find the utility useful or not, pld has a crap ton of it. Everyone foresaw the change. Even if they left pld alone they would have bumped drk/war a bit more to compensate. So it still would have been a case of war/drk out dpsing the utility tank. Drk doesn't bring as much utility for drk/pld to be even on dps.

[DWolfwood]

ubmake it sound so ok. But it doeant just affect 1 HS. It affect 20% of HS with RQ buff and delays GB. Its a double wammy. Its a hige fps loss

It doesn't affect the other Holy Spirits or your Goring Blade. You're still going to only use Holy Spirit inside that window. If it's so long that it results in you only being able to cast 3 Holy Spirits inside that window (assuming you are indeed among the ones using 5 Holy Spirits as of now), then it will be a more significant nerf than people currently think. As of now though, it's pretty inconsequential considering just how high PLD DPS is and we're not even really sure how much of a DPS buff WAR and DRK will get.

[Dizzy_Derp]

Also tanks have always been able to maintain 100% dps uptime in savage fights with a party that knew what they were doing... tanks still can maintain that 100% even now without a paladin. The job skillset just adds another defensive buffer to the party.

There is only one fight in all of savage 3.0 that had 100% uptime, a9s.

[Bravely_Default]

I had personally sword oathed 100% of A9S-A11S when it was relevant... A12S I have watched dark knights go gritless the entire thing and the only thing stopping PLD was that our blocks did nothing for magic damage. Again if they try to make that extra mitigation a necessity, then they will make the content unclearable without a PLD which is bs to the other two tanks. Yes we need a DPS nerf, but we NEED DPS UTILITY, not HEALER/DEFENSIVE utility.