Healer adjustment in 4.05

[Ghishlain]

Maybe at the part where Diurnal Sect grants 10% more healing on EVERY skill the AST (not abilities), with comparable potencies as WHM???

Have you done the potency math to understand how much that changes the AST kit? It looks like a lot but the total potency differences between WHM and D.AST are closer than you think.

[VanilleFang]

Have you done the potency math to understand how much that changes the AST kit? It looks like a lot but the total potency differences between WHM and D.AST are closer than you think.

This is why I was asking. It's not that big of a difference and the level of through put a WHM has (oGCD and MP) it's kind of equal.

I also think that we can't ignore Cure III. I know it's rather situational but in a lot of SB instances it is incredibly potent. There are a lot of stacking opportunities, especially during a fight like SusEx.

[Yuyuka3]

Have you done the potency math to understand how much that changes the AST kit? It looks like a lot but the total potency differences between WHM and D.AST are closer than you think.

Considering everything else they bring to the table, they should be way, WAY beneath what WHM can do in healing, so being 'closer than what it looks like' is still not even nearly enough. Besides, healing alone isn't everything, and no matter how you look at it, AST is far too OP at the moment, but even cutting one or the other won't chance sh** because considering everything including raid design, there is still no reason to bring a WHM over AST or even over SCH. Also, last time they were weaker in healing to compensate for their cards they cried until they got what they wanted - they became the king of healers. So even if that returned, it wouldn't change much because history would just repeat itself.

[Ghishlain]

Considering everything else they bring to the table, they should be way, WAY beneath what WHM can do in healing, so being 'closer than what it looks like' is still not even nearly enough. Besides, healing alone isn't everything, and no matter how you look at it, AST is far too OP at the moment, but even cutting one or the other won't chance sh** because considering everything including raid design, there is still no reason to bring a WHM over AST or even over SCH. Also, last time they were weaker in healing to compensate for their cards they cried until they got what they wanted - they became the king of healers. So even if that returned, it wouldn't change much because history would just repeat itself.

WHM has better MP sustain, better throughput, and higher raw single target DPS. This isn't 3.4 anymore where D.AST outshines WHM in every single facet of the kit. WHM now has a niche they can put their name onto and differentiate them from their AST counterpart. Groups should pick the healer pairs that are suitable for their comfort, skill, and group composition. There wasn't really that choice in 3.4 versus now.

If you and few other "hardcore" WHMs should seriously take off the 3.4 blinders and try to look at how the kit has changed, you might be able to get passed your own 3.4 biases about how the WHM kit is utterly and implicitly worse than the D.AST kit. Few people are disputing AST made out like a bandit, but there are quite a number of posters who can see what the WHM kit bring and can see how they can try to fit that into their own play versus "chasing the meta".

[Yuyuka3]

WHM has better MP sustain, better throughput, and higher raw single target DPS. This isn't 3.4 anymore where D.AST outshines WHM in every single facet of the kit. WHM now has a niche they can put their name onto and differentiate them from their AST counterpart. Groups should pick the healer pairs that are suitable for their comfort, skill, and group composition. There wasn't really that choice in 3.4 versus now.

If you and few other "hardcore" WHMs should seriously take off the 3.4 blinders and try to look at how the kit has changed, you might be able to get passed your own 3.4 biases about how the WHM kit is utterly and implicitly worse than the D.AST kit. Few people are disputing AST made out like a bandit, but there are quite a number of posters who can see what the WHM kit bring and can see how they can try to fit that into their own play versus "chasing the meta".

You didn't read the part where I mentioned WHMs higher personal DPS is a) only marginally better (around 200 dps more than SCH, at the most) and b) stinks compared to the increase the others bring to the group, did you? So tell my, why bring a WHM without anything beneficial to the group instead of a SCH or AST who can support said group outside of pure healing, while also delivering said healing at the same time? Tell me. I'm curious. Also, 3.4 bias? Not chasing the meta? LOL... Every. single. meta discussion I followed via Discord etc. agrees that AST/SCH is meta again. Better MP management doesn't do ANYTHING when there's nothing you can do that others cannot (and SCH gets buffed in that regard soon anyways, so even less of an advantage), Chain Stratagem is a pretty useful skill to have and nothing WHM can do comes close, and I don't think I have to touch upon AST and their monstrous kit. Also, most SCH I know agree that at 70 they have far less troubles than they had early on. But I didn't expect anything from an apologist anyway, so what am I even still doing here...

[xNewbx]

You didn't read the part where I mentioned WHMs higher personal DPS is a) only marginally better (around 200 dps more than SCH, at the most)

SCH I believe has the higher dps by 100 or 200...

[technole]

SCH I believe has the higher dps by 100 or 200...

Add in Chain Strategm as party DPS utility gain, and that is well more than that.

[Xhareem]

You didn't read the part where I mentioned WHMs higher personal DPS is a) only marginally better (around 200 dps more than SCH, at the most) and b) stinks compared to the increase the others bring to the group, did you?

Maths shows that SCH utility (AKA Chain Stratagem) is barely 1% damage increase. So, only if party dps is over 20k, bringing an SCH is slightly more damage than bringing a WHM. "Slightly" doesn't make for all the extra healing a WHM can provide compared to an SCH.

[Ghishlain]

You didn't read the part where I mentioned WHMs higher personal DPS is a) only marginally better (around 200 dps more than SCH, at the most) and b) stinks compared to the increase the others bring to the group, did you? So tell my, why bring a WHM without anything beneficial to the group instead of a SCH or AST who can support said group outside of pure healing, while also delivering said healing at the same time? Tell me. I'm curious. Also, 3.4 bias? Not chasing the meta? LOL... Every. single. meta discussion I followed via Discord etc. agrees that AST/SCH is meta again. Better MP management doesn't do ANYTHING when there's nothing you can do that others cannot (and SCH gets buffed in that regard soon anyways, so even less of an advantage), Chain Stratagem is a pretty useful skill to have and nothing WHM can do comes close, and I don't think I have to touch upon AST and their monstrous kit. Also, most SCH I know agree that at 70 they have far less troubles than they had early on. But I didn't expect anything from an apologist anyway, so what am I even still doing here...

Your poor assumption is that every single raid group in the entire world can play at a speedkill / world first skill level. Not everyone can do that, nor everyone wants to do that. Even if AST/SCH is meta, you'd still consider bringing WHM for the longevity because *GASPS* PEOPLE CAN MAKE MISTAKES.

Sure, if you're playing at the absolute pinnacle of skill level the extra healing and longevity WHM brings can mean nothing - but now WHM brings a viable and different alternative to running meta.

You and the few sheeple like you seem to have it stuck in your heads that it's either META OR BUST when there are all different types of players and skill levels and now each healer, as of 4.0, brings something unique that a healer player can leverage into their raid group. This isn't 3.4 where the AST kit completely outclasses the WHM kit. This is 4.0. STOP TREATING IT LIKE IT'S A 3.4 KIT.

Also:

Susano EX Healer DPS
#1 WHM - 2,458.6 DPS
#1 SCH - 2,422.7 DPS (1.5% less than WHM)
#1 AST - 2,126.7 DPS (14.5% less than WHM)

Lakshimi EX Healer DPS
#1 WHM - 2,878.7 DPS
#1 SCH - 2,347.7 DPS (18.4% less than WHM)
#1 AST - 2,126.8 DPS (26.1% less than WHM)

If you sort it by Balance DPS WHM is basically ahead 100-200 DPS at a time of SCH and 400-500 DPS ahead of AST. Yes, AST can make that up on the power of Expanded Balance, not too sure if Chain Stratgem allows the raid to make up that DPS over the course of the fight but a well played WHM can bring a lot of just raw power through without a reliance on the rest of your team playing perfectly.

If a healer is more comfortable playing WHM over AST or SCH, they now have the ability to do that without thinking "I'm playing the weaker kit". I make an infinitely better WHM than I do SCH or AST and if my group makes mistakes, I can fix it unlike if things go south when I'm on SCH or AST - and now I don't feel like I'm a burden to the group like I felt WHM was when 3.4 AST changes overtuned the living hell outta the job.

[edit]

For love of God stop saying whm has more dps like searsouly. A whm dps can not even come close to a aoe balance.

Don't bother saying
"But balance is hard to get and is rng"
Cuz I can have a aoe balance up almost a entire primal fight

I killed lakshimi in a pug CLEAR group for a friend and we killed lakshimi before we got lb3. I had aoe balance up the entire fight but adds cuz I was like meh i don't think you need buffs for this.

Now yes aoe balance dose have SOME down time but not much

Except... WHM does bring more raw DPS than any other healer. *Points to above* Heck, look at the new SSS requirements for Susano EX. WHM is expected to be 10% more powerful than SCH and 20% more powerful than AST. Of course player skill level can lead to those gaps being less and it shows when you look at the logs of the highest DPS numbers recorded on logs.

The question then remains, for YOU, as the player - can you bring more DPS playing WHM, SCH, or AST? If the group DPS is lower than the pinnacle of skill level, then you might just get more overall output as a WHM than if you would play SCH or AST. This is up to each individual group to decide where their strengths and weaknesses lie and build accordingly.

Again - it's not clear cut anymore that AST > WHM in every category. BRING THE HEALER THAT IS MOST SUITABLE FOR YOU AND YOUR GROUP.

[xNewbx]

Snip

How about looking at the numbers when a group doesn't buff up one player by putting the balance on them and only them.