Healer adjustment in 4.05

[xNewbx]

The choice will only be between WHM and SCH anyways due to how much AST brings to the table. That was clear to me from the beginning. And with those changes, I feel SCH gets ahead of WHM again (not that they really ever were behind), just as predicted...

I agree, SCH is still ahead of the WHM currently. I'm glad I decided to level the AST.

And no, WHM isn't bad, it's actually quite nice. SCH is just better.

[Xhareem]

WHM and SCH can't compare. WHM is regens, party healing and high HPS. SCH is (or should be) mitigation, mostly one target.

You can compare WHM with Diurnal AST or you can compare SCH with Nocturnal AST. I don't know if WHM healing output can compete with Diurnal AST (leaving buffs aside), but what I really know is SCH mitigation and healing can't compete with Nocturnal AST (leaving buffs aside as well).

[AlphaSonic]

WHM and SCH can't compare. WHM is regens, party healing and high HPS. SCH is (or should be) mitigation, mostly one target.

You can compare WHM with Diurnal AST or you can compare SCH with Nocturnal AST. I don't know it WHM healing output can compete with Diurnal AST (leaving buffs aside), but what I really know is SCH mitigation and healing can't compete with Nocturnal AST (leaving buffs aside as well).

It will look like

WHM/Noc AST -> Less DPS more healing
SCH/Diu AST -> more DPS less healing
WHM/SCH -> LOL

[VanilleFang]

Where are people getting that Diurnal AST has stronger healing than WHM?

[Yuyuka3]

WHM and SCH can't compare. WHM is regens, party healing and high HPS. SCH is (or should be) mitigation, mostly one target.

You can compare WHM with Diurnal AST or you can compare SCH with Nocturnal AST. I don't know it WHM healing output can compete with Diurnal AST (leaving buffs aside), but what I really know is SCH mitigation and healing can't compete with Nocturnal AST (leaving buffs aside as well).

High DPS? What? WHM is marginally better than the other healers, especially SCH, in single target, and if you consider that said other healers can actually increase party DPS, WHM is far, far, FAR behind even in that regard. And no, they cannot compare to AST healing output at all. AST has a 10% potency modifier on ALL their heals in Diurnal, 15% in Nocturnal. WHM got... a 50 potency increase on Cure and Cure II. That's not really comparable, AST blows WHM way out of the water in EVERY regard. AST also got an instant ST heal on a 40 sec CD, and don't even make me start with Earthly Star. F*** that skill, honestly, and whoever tought that's a good idea to implement. And I didn't compare WHM and SCH. I said the choice what second healer you will take will be between WHM or SCH, because AST is so OP that they are almost guaranteed a spot in a static. I didn't say WHM and SCH are the same, but they are equally lacking compared to AST, just in their respective regards. I also know the differences between healers quite well, thank you very much.

The only thing WHM is really good at is decimating dungeon packs, so I guess I will stay a dungeon healer for the rest of my playtime because I CAN'T DO ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF DUNGEONS THE OTHERS CANNOT DO BETTER!

Where are people getting that Diurnal AST has stronger healing than WHM?

Maybe at the part where Diurnal Sect grants 10% more healing on EVERY skill the AST (not abilities), with comparable potencies as WHM???

I agree, SCH is still ahead of the WHM currently. I'm glad I decided to level the AST.

And no, WHM isn't bad, it's actually quite nice. SCH is just better.

Never said it's bad. But I'm really disappointed, and actually quite enraged, at how BLIND the people doing healer balance are, and how little they actually care for what the people who play the jobs daily tell them. Because if they would listen, we wouldn't have this problem to begin with because WHM would have something that makes taking them to raids over the other healers actually worthwile. But now. They play ostrich and just burry their heads in the sand.

[Ghishlain]

Maybe at the part where Diurnal Sect grants 10% more healing on EVERY skill the AST (not abilities), with comparable potencies as WHM???

Have you done the potency math to understand how much that changes the AST kit? It looks like a lot but the total potency differences between WHM and D.AST are closer than you think.

[VanilleFang]

Have you done the potency math to understand how much that changes the AST kit? It looks like a lot but the total potency differences between WHM and D.AST are closer than you think.

This is why I was asking. It's not that big of a difference and the level of through put a WHM has (oGCD and MP) it's kind of equal.

I also think that we can't ignore Cure III. I know it's rather situational but in a lot of SB instances it is incredibly potent. There are a lot of stacking opportunities, especially during a fight like SusEx.

[Yuyuka3]

Have you done the potency math to understand how much that changes the AST kit? It looks like a lot but the total potency differences between WHM and D.AST are closer than you think.

Considering everything else they bring to the table, they should be way, WAY beneath what WHM can do in healing, so being 'closer than what it looks like' is still not even nearly enough. Besides, healing alone isn't everything, and no matter how you look at it, AST is far too OP at the moment, but even cutting one or the other won't chance sh** because considering everything including raid design, there is still no reason to bring a WHM over AST or even over SCH. Also, last time they were weaker in healing to compensate for their cards they cried until they got what they wanted - they became the king of healers. So even if that returned, it wouldn't change much because history would just repeat itself.

[Ghishlain]

Considering everything else they bring to the table, they should be way, WAY beneath what WHM can do in healing, so being 'closer than what it looks like' is still not even nearly enough. Besides, healing alone isn't everything, and no matter how you look at it, AST is far too OP at the moment, but even cutting one or the other won't chance sh** because considering everything including raid design, there is still no reason to bring a WHM over AST or even over SCH. Also, last time they were weaker in healing to compensate for their cards they cried until they got what they wanted - they became the king of healers. So even if that returned, it wouldn't change much because history would just repeat itself.

WHM has better MP sustain, better throughput, and higher raw single target DPS. This isn't 3.4 anymore where D.AST outshines WHM in every single facet of the kit. WHM now has a niche they can put their name onto and differentiate them from their AST counterpart. Groups should pick the healer pairs that are suitable for their comfort, skill, and group composition. There wasn't really that choice in 3.4 versus now.

If you and few other "hardcore" WHMs should seriously take off the 3.4 blinders and try to look at how the kit has changed, you might be able to get passed your own 3.4 biases about how the WHM kit is utterly and implicitly worse than the D.AST kit. Few people are disputing AST made out like a bandit, but there are quite a number of posters who can see what the WHM kit bring and can see how they can try to fit that into their own play versus "chasing the meta".

[Yuyuka3]

WHM has better MP sustain, better throughput, and higher raw single target DPS. This isn't 3.4 anymore where D.AST outshines WHM in every single facet of the kit. WHM now has a niche they can put their name onto and differentiate them from their AST counterpart. Groups should pick the healer pairs that are suitable for their comfort, skill, and group composition. There wasn't really that choice in 3.4 versus now.

If you and few other "hardcore" WHMs should seriously take off the 3.4 blinders and try to look at how the kit has changed, you might be able to get passed your own 3.4 biases about how the WHM kit is utterly and implicitly worse than the D.AST kit. Few people are disputing AST made out like a bandit, but there are quite a number of posters who can see what the WHM kit bring and can see how they can try to fit that into their own play versus "chasing the meta".

You didn't read the part where I mentioned WHMs higher personal DPS is a) only marginally better (around 200 dps more than SCH, at the most) and b) stinks compared to the increase the others bring to the group, did you? So tell my, why bring a WHM without anything beneficial to the group instead of a SCH or AST who can support said group outside of pure healing, while also delivering said healing at the same time? Tell me. I'm curious. Also, 3.4 bias? Not chasing the meta? LOL... Every. single. meta discussion I followed via Discord etc. agrees that AST/SCH is meta again. Better MP management doesn't do ANYTHING when there's nothing you can do that others cannot (and SCH gets buffed in that regard soon anyways, so even less of an advantage), Chain Stratagem is a pretty useful skill to have and nothing WHM can do comes close, and I don't think I have to touch upon AST and their monstrous kit. Also, most SCH I know agree that at 70 they have far less troubles than they had early on. But I didn't expect anything from an apologist anyway, so what am I even still doing here...