My Stance on End-game Raiding/Gear Correlation not Causation.

[Blanchimont]

The problem with raids designed like that is that they become inaccessible to a majority of the player base. This is a massive problem with raids in other MMOs to the point where in some games, there's no reason to even justify developing content for such a small portion of the player base. The way FF14 does raids is divide them into smaller sections and this ultimately allows more players to participate because they don't have to devote themselves to a massive hour long boss battle every time they want to raid.

[CartherineZero]

The problem with raids designed like that is that they become inaccessible to a majority of the player base. This is a massive problem with raids in other MMOs to the point where in some games, there's no reason to even justify developing content for such a small portion of the player base. The way FF14 does raids is divide them into smaller sections and this ultimately allows more players to participate because they don't have to devote themselves to a massive hour long boss battle every time they want to raid.

Then that is not a raid, thats a trial, we have those too, whats the difference then?

[Maku]

Then that is not a raid, thats a trial, we have those too, whats the difference then?

This exactly. Deltascape is a trial. Crystal tower and Void Arc were raids.

[Blanchimont]

Then that is not a raid, thats a trial, we have those too, whats the difference then?

There's not much of a difference in FF14 and that's the point. The raids we have right now are less of a raid than the extreme trials and savage raids due to how little coordination is actually required. Raids come in all shapes and sizes and you don't have to have a 24 man dungeon to consider it a raid.

[Deliciou5]

There's not much of a difference in FF14 and that's the point. The raids we have right now are less of a raid than the extreme trials and savage raids due to how little coordination is actually required. Raids come in all shapes and sizes and you don't have to have a 24 man dungeon to consider it a raid.

What kills me is that games like WoW know how to do larger group raids that are pretty hard, and i kinda feel insulted in a way when they say no one would beat things like 24 man savage or something. It's like a slap in the face. I would like to see more challenging content at a 24 man level where you can premake your parties and gather together people through PF. In the end other games can seem to do it, but for some reason ffxiv can't. They are right about what they say about deltascape, it's basically just more single boss fights like primals. They are tech. not true raids. I understand not everyone has the time to spend multiple hours to do certain events, but doesn't mean its not a good idea to add. Convenience when it comes to content can only be taken so far, there needs to be decisions made for certain types of content that better the content we have, not water it down for every person.

Maybe a higher tier for savage extreme or w/e they call the difficult beyond just simply savage that they talked about adding, and maybe make a true end game raid thats 24 man but much harder with pre-made parties, i believe the land of eureka is a step in this direction but even then i think it will just simply be more boss fights than actual raids...which is both good and bad. At least it will add to the end game landscape and possibly add things other than more instances into the game. The highest tier wouldn't be for everyone, but it would still be healthy with cross server alliances and self made alliances. To actually control what type of people you actually get to play with, that will allow players to succeed at more challenging alliances content and allow more difficult actual raids. Not everything in the game has to be a source of convenience. That's what is holding the more traditional raids back.

If people are genuinely worried about it taking too long, then maybe they can make a more permanent progression based on clears, that you could go to checkpoints when re-queing by beating each boss so many times, so you can start off on the part you want, which would make it more broken up like delta, but the trash mobs pull before each boss and everything that comes before it will still be a part of the raid and takes a while, and will be very challenging and have more mechanics. A true raid, so you can just skip ahead after you get so many clears with temp. tokens, or more perm. clears and you can farm each segement. After you get good enough you can run everything without stopping but it would make it feel more like a true raid without taking the progression out of it and make it exhausting. So thats the other side of it, however omega delta will always be harder per fight and doesn't really have a raid feel to it, just a bunch of boss fights. No actual dungeon.

[dragonseth07]

What kills me is that games like WoW know how to do larger group raids that are pretty hard, and i kinda feel insulted in a way when they say no one would beat things like 24 man savage or something.

Well, the playerbase here is smaller and, simply put, not that skilled.

How many times have you seen a boss in the child's play 24-mans we have now wipe your raid repeatedly? How many times have you seen Alliance A all die to Ozma at the same time?

[Deliciou5]

Well, the playerbase here is smaller and, simply put, not that skilled.

How many times have you seen a boss in the child's play 24-mans we have now wipe your raid repeatedly? How many times have you seen Alliance A all die to Ozma at the same time?

When it first came out it was pretty challenging, after a while i didn't wipe that much at all. Also you gotta understand that if you are allowed to pre-make your alliances before going in(maybe with certain rules) that you are going to have a higher chance of getting the skilled party that you want. You are just generalizing about the player base not being that skilled. Skilled people would go for things like savage, its not always unskilled players going for it unless they have a mindset of improving.

I also imagine something as 24 man savage as being something that is more difficult than 8 man savage but not so unforgiving as to severly punish every death. I always imagined it to be punishing if you only had a ton of deaths.