A detailed Reaction to Warrior in SB

[P4X0R10N]

I agree with most of it, but I do believe people are still focused too much on the PLD changes in comparison to there's. Yeah, they're doing too much damage right now, but I feel they should have the utility.. while the WAR has the breakneck damage and ability to keep their own. Hopefully the WARs will get better stuff in the 4.05 patch.

People are not too focused on paladin changes as a comparison.

If anything, people are too focused on comparing current war to 3.x war.

But since we're ok the topic of paladins, pretty unfair that wars lose half gauge on switching to dps stance when a paladins lose half of a guage used for defensive skills. Right?

How about SE make it fair and halve paladin mana on stance swap too?

[YitharV2]

But since we're ok the topic of paladins, pretty unfair that wars lose half gauge on switching to dps stance when a paladins lose half of a guage used for defensive skills. Right?

How about SE make it fair and halve paladin mana on stance swap too?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsC8...utu.be&t=4m55s

Glad to see we're all still taking the reductive road, though. It's surely far better that everyone just gets QoL and sensible-design nerfs rather than others being raised to or above a currently leading standard in the role.

^

[Dizzy_Derp]

People are not too focused on paladin changes as a comparison.

If anything, people are too focused on comparing current war to 3.x war.

But since we're ok the topic of paladins, pretty unfair that wars lose half gauge on switching to dps stance when a paladins lose half of a guage used for defensive skills. Right?

How about SE make it fair and halve paladin mana on stance swap too?

Yep all of our dps skills are locked behind something that is cut in half when u swap which is not the case for the other two. Although I don't wish this clunky bullshit on any class pld is feeling great. They need to remove any penadding for the swap simply because we are so reliant on that gauge. Oh and because defiance cannot be used as a cooldown like shield/grit

[Rhyn]

It's argued here that Berserk should give 100 gauge so our lives aren't dictated by the gauge.

Jesus christ that guy talking over Yuki when he was trying to explain that. So annoying.

[SpookyGhost]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsC8...utu.be&t=4m55s

There's truth in this, but it's a bit misleading. If you, say, introduce an OP job that you had no idea was OP and everyone was like "buff us up to that so it's fair" then you're going to end up in a situation where all those jobs are super duper strong relative to the content. Now you need to go back and re-tune all the expansion content as well as all the new content in patches. It is much more simple to buff and nerf classes to a specific point you want them at relative to the content.

e: Also, as much as I like Core-A, I believe he's more focused on fighting game related stuff which is one character balanced against all the other characters since they're all doing the same thing (fighting the other dude til he's dead, albeit in different ways). In fighting games it's fine to do a bunch of buffs since everyone just needs to be equal to eachother since there's no boss to kill or whatever. However, even that can go too far and you end up with MvC3 which, although a fun game, has a meta around avoiding being touched even once or your character is dead and now you need to block a crazy mixup or just get unblockable'd.

[YitharV2]

There's truth in this, but it's a bit misleading. If you, say, introduce an OP job that you had no idea was OP and everyone was like "buff us up to that so it's fair" then you're going to end up in a situation where all those jobs are super duper strong relative to the content. Now you need to go back and re-tune all the expansion content as well as all the new content in patches. It is much more simple to buff and nerf classes to a specific point you want them at relative to the content.

e: Also, as much as I like Core-A, I believe he's more focused on fighting game related stuff which is one character balanced against all the other characters since they're all doing the same thing (fighting the other dude til he's dead, albeit in different ways). In fighting games it's fine to do a bunch of buffs since everyone just needs to be equal to eachother since there's no boss to kill or whatever. However, even that can go too far and you end up with MvC3 which, although a fun game, has a meta around avoiding being touched even once or your character is dead and now you need to block a crazy mixup or just get unblockable'd.

I don't necessarily disagree that it's simpler. But in relation to FFXIV, I feel SB content is tuned fairly well to PLD, even though PLD is relatively strong compared to the other two. Even though it's simpler, I feel that nerfing shouldn't be done unless it's truly necessary due to how nerfs feel compared to buffs (and if it needs to be done, as Core-A stated, "there are creative ways to do this rather than making everyone depressed"). I also feel there are ways they could have made stance dancing more fluid for PLD/DRK, such as making them oGCD and gaining the enmity effect immediately but gaining the damage reduction a GCD later (but I suppose maybe that would be too complicated).

It's also true that this isn't a fighting game, but I think what he says about fighting games has relevance to games in general. He also posted another video on reducing the skill gap, which I also believe has relevance.

[DeadlockRahl]

Great job Tegernako for breaking it all down. Great opening post and thread.

Warrior needs some drastic changes to make it fun and usable again.

I hope square enix have read your post.

Paladin is in a great place at the moment, dont change them. Bring the other tank classes up so we can sufficiently support our fellow tank and raid groups and have fun doing so.

[Tegernako]

Great job Tegernako for breaking it all down. Great opening post and thread.

Warrior needs some drastic changes to make it fun and usable again.

I hope square enix have read your post.

Paladin is in a great place at the moment, dont change them. Bring the other tank classes up so we can sufficiently support our fellow tank and raid groups and have fun doing so.

1. I just want more utility then being an IB spammer for "that awesome mitigation"

2. To not be clunky and to be fun to play again.

3. For DRK to be buffed and for PLD to stay as it is.

[KingFrost]

Yo. Monk main getting back into War for the 1st time since 2.x. Not hardcore or anything, but I try to do the best I can.

Gotta say, the removal of Bloodbath for Warrior was possibly the dumbest change to War. As is, the skill is essential for a DPS in solo play, because the sustain is amazing and actually feels really good since it always tops you off. Hell it's even good when you have a healer. As a Monk, if a tank falls I'm usually next in line. Between Riddle of Earth and Bloodbath, I feel like a real 2.0 War. I'd like 4.0 War to be the same.

That said, War needs a proper replacement. I think it's safe to say Bloodbath is about as iconic for it's identity as being really mad all the time and brutal (See all of it's move names. Hahah). As previously mentioned, the 2.0 concept was badass, but flawed in execution. A new Bloodbath (Let's say like the current one but on a shorter CD) would go a long way in retaining it's identity and feeling fun. Of course this also hinges on Attack Power being fixed, and our damage and rotations being better and not being a mess and tedious (Seriously, maximizing fell Cleaves feels like you need to be clairvoyant from what I've read on it).

[P4X0R10N]

Yo. Monk main getting back into War for the 1st time since 2.x. Not hardcore or anything, but I try to do the best I can.

Gotta say, the removal of Bloodbath for Warrior was possibly the dumbest change to War. As is, the skill is essential for a DPS in solo play, because the sustain is amazing and actually feels really good since it always tops you off.

Healing for solo play? You don\\'t need bloodbath for that. Bloodbath healing would be too easy. Not engaging at all.

Since we lose bloodbath, and switching to tank stance to heal would eat all our beast gauge, we have to rely on faithless chocohealer. Sometimes it heals you, sometimes you just die. Makes fir fun and engaging gameplay!