Open up the world, please! Part I

[Aphex]

It sounds like the people asking for this don't know how game development works.

Game dev here. What you are talking about is modularity, and it does still exist in 2.0, obviously. But what you are pointing out is true. The transitions would require a lot of work. It wouldn't be as simple as tacking on a tunnel and calling it a day. It would need to look natural (as you pointed out, the textures vary quite a bit from zone to zone.) The programming and the QA attached to this would be pretty huge. If players find a way to pass through these volumes more quickly than intended, it can cause serious issues. Also like you pointed out, the min requirements for the game would need to be adjusted a bit. The zones could be kept as is though, they wouldn't need to be remade or anything. This is very possible for the team to do, but there would probably need to be demand for it, otherwise it would be hard to justify the cost.

[SendohJin]

but there would probably need to be demand for it, otherwise it would be hard to justify the cost.

i have zero interest in this.

[Fyce]

No thanks. Otherwise you get completly unnatural rectangle maps where you go from a desert area to a cold tundra after going through a little tunnel.
Yes, I'm talking about GW2, as it was used as an example in this thread.

Besides, nobody would take the time to walk or fly. Everyone would still use fast travel anyway.

And finally, it's probably technically impossible at this point. So I'd rather have meaningful content than them going submarine-mode during two years to then say "hey, look, you can go from southern Thanalan to center simply by walking!!11!1! How awesome is that!1!11!!! You know, the maps where you have seen for five years now and that you have no incentive in going back!!1!"

Again, no thanks.

[Skivvy]

Archeage has seams, but they're not very obvious except from the air ships. When you cross a zone boundary you actually see a huge chunk of draw distance change. Trust me, you do notice where the seams are, as the PvP/PvE mode changes immediately when you cross them. The only places that feel completely seamless in that game are when you go out to sea on a ship other than the rowboat.
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You are correct - AA of course has seams, but you rarely ever notice it while roaming around. The only time I personally ever notice a seam is when I'm boating, and now and then there will be a tiny blip/weird graphics - although this could also have to do with their servers as AA has definitely had it's own set of issues in the past. lol.

But anyway, I would in a heartbeat take an open world like AA or similar. Sadly, I doubt we'll ever see that in this game as it would be a complete overhaul of the game. As it is, SE claims they can't implement x,y,z due to server stress/loads/etc, I'd be worried about the amount of stress an open world would create*

*this is my assumption as I really don't quite understand servers/loads/all that jazz. I also think SE uses that excuse too frequently, but what are we gonna do :P

[IveraIvalice]

This is very possible for the team to do, but there would probably need to be demand for it, otherwise it would be hard to justify the cost.

It is definitely possible but it would mean adding some sort of tunnel to transition between the areas using different art assets. Though tunneling is mentioned in the his discussion a lot it only refers to limiting what the player can see and for how long so it can dump memory and load new memory for the other area. It's not always a tunnel or straight path, it could be a fairly wide space as long as there aren't many textures and models being used in this zone (just stating this part for others, I know you know this).

But since they have increased mount speed and flying is much faster, it makes it harder to transition between maps seamlessly. Basically meaning they wouldn't have been able to increase mount speed if there was seamless transitioning because then you could get through the loading zone faster. And I don't know how flying would work with that since you can't limit what they see unless they literally make a tunnel that leads to the other area

I think at some point they say they may want to make flying possible in 1.0 areas but they aren't really designed for that. If they did do that they would probably make the maps a bit larger like how the 3.0+ maps have been but I can't see them moving away from the isolated maps we have now only because they decided they would be that way when they were creating the game based on player feedback on 1.0

Most of my game dev knowledge is on the artist side rather then the programming side so if there are more technical tricks then that, I might not know of it. I know mostly about the limit on art assets based on memory limits on the system it's running on, and how the assets are used through out the map to hide how much is being reused depending on how big the map is.

I can see them removing zones in cities possibly but not between open world zones unless they did a lot more work that wouldn't really benefit the game much. So most likely they wouldn't do this unless it was a more drastic change like revamping the areas to be designed around flying and swimming because then they would already be in there changing the map

[Aphex]

It is definitely possible but it would mean adding some sort of tunnel to transition between the areas using different art assets...

I can definitely tell that you know what you are talking about. It seems like we are both on the same page. I guess, without considering the possible limitations, I really like the idea of FFXIV being open world. If they did this and it wasn't part of an expansion and it didn't affect the required specs, would you prefer it?

Also, I notice a lot of people knock 1.x, but haven't even played it. I did play 1.x from launch until Dalamud was revealed to not be the moon from Majoras Mask. Truthfully, despite its short comings, there was some legitimately cool stuff in 1.x. People like to jump on the "1.0 sux" bandwagon without looking at the systems that did actually work and were pretty cool. IF an open world design were re-introduced to FFXIV, I would also like to see open world dungeons make their return as well.

[Galka_Rock]

But since they have increased mount speed and flying is much faster, it makes it harder to transition between maps seamlessly. Basically meaning they wouldn't have been able to increase mount speed if there was seamless transitioning because then you could get through the loading zone faster. And I don't know how flying would work with that since you can't limit what they see unless they literally make a tunnel that leads to the other area
the map[/QUOTE]

I don't think it would be too problematic, though. Because, they one, can prevent flying and fast running in transition areas, and two, most systems only take a few seconds to load anyway.

[Vhailor]

While completely feasible from a technical standpoint, I don't trust SE to be able to integrate it properly. They have consistently shown a rank incompetence when it comes to technical matters.

Also, I don't believe it would serve to make the world feel more connected, speaking personally. FFXIV 1.0 also benefited from the fact that teleporting wasn't a trivial task; it cost Anima rather than Gil, and prior to Hamlet Defense, it recovered at a rate of 6 / day. Considering an individual teleport could cost that much, people often made an elective choice to run through the world rather than teleport to a location.

FFXIV 2.0 eliminated all that, and it would render a connected world somewhat pointless. The convenience of travel is what really killed the feel of a seamless and integrated world. FFXI, for instance, felt very much connected to me, despite having zone lines; the reason was because travel was more difficult, and required a more intimate knowledge of individual zones than what we have now.

All this to say, I neither trust SE to be able to competently pull it off, nor do I think it would improve the feel of FFXIV.

[IveraIvalice]

I really like the idea of FFXIV being open world. If they did this and it wasn't part of an expansion and it didn't affect the required specs, would you prefer it?

I'm open to either way I actually have no preference, I just greatly prefer an interesting less repeated looking map so as long as they keep the maps looking unique as much as possible then I do like a more open world seamless transition.

It was the same for me with 1.0, I played from early beta until dalamud fell and I really liked the game even when a lot of people left. The open world dungeons were definitely something I remembered well along with notorious monsters that would drop a rare piece of gear most times. Early on there were a lot of technical issues and there wasn't a lot to do but I still liked it a lot and as the updates started rolling out and a lot of good systems came out I could see how much better the game was getting.

I liked seeing how they really listened to the players feedback when remaking the game. Specifically the few polls that they had that showed everyone's interest in the overall design direction. i think it was mostly through that poll that everyone decided they wanted smaller interesting areas because the current areas were too big and empty. Overall I like the direction they went with 2.0 but if they did go a bit in the other direction to make open world more seamless and have open world dungeons and bring back things like that (I forgot what it was called when camps would get attacked randomly) then that would be cool too.

Basically if they keep areas just as unique then I'm all for a more open world but if the areas take a step back to make it possible then I'd rather them be left as is

[IveraIvalice]

I don't think it would be too problematic, though. Because, they one, can prevent flying and fast running in transition areas, and two, most systems only take a few seconds to load anyway.

Since a transition area is just a connecting area between 2 major zones, there isn't anything stoping the player from flying high up in one zone to the point that they could look into the other zone over the transition zone. That would mean the other zone's assets have to be loaded in already while being in the first zone which isn't possible if they are making full use of the memory for each zone which they of course would be.
The only way to prevent seeing over the transition zone would be to make a very tall transition zone that maybe zig zags so you can't see from one end to the other while flying. Like a canyon pass between two tall mountains or something, but that would need to be similar in every area that you can fly in.

The second thing is dependant on each persons hardware so it could load very fast for you but people on older hardware would take along time and they need to make that zone long enough for someone on their minimum required specs to be able to run through seamlessly. Otherwise the would need to raise the minimum required specs and that could make some people not able to play well anymore. In general any company wants as many people as possible to be able to play their game because that's more possible players and money so they would try to avoid doing that unless the pros of limiting players on older hardware outweigh the cons (like the PS3).

They probably wouldn't need to raise the minimum required specs though, they just need to adjust the length of the transition zone but that would absolutely mean they couldn't increase mount speed later like they recently did. They could do what you mentioned and make them slow down when going through it but I imagine people wouldn't like that and complain about that a lot since not everyone knows how that all works and if they did then it would kinda break the illusion and be obvious to them every time they run through.

There's lots of pros and cons and possible solutions but it's all about if the end result is worth changing something they have working already. Not to mention, I've mostly been talking about the map limits to this, there would definitely be more work needed on the back end system stuff to make this work also, stuff I wouldn't really know about.
Man I type too much, I gotta work on shortening these