Shirk is amazing. (Ethics)

[FPZ]

The dumbest skill to ever reach a tank. Stealing group enmity wouldve been fine, biut this one isnt even needed anymore since provoke and ultimaumdont require you to level a second job to learn anymore. Ethics or not, the only reason a tank has to have this on their hotbar, is because they cant tank swap properly, or the other tank cant hold hate. If I ever ran into a tank that trolled so obviously with this skill, theyd be kicked so hard, itd stop being a fun prank for them.

Best laugh I've had in weeks.

Bravo!

[Linx0r]

Honestly, if both tanks know how to swap properly you don't need shirk. It's nice to have but definitely not needed. If you have to delay your roh combo so be it. If you want to keep doing your ra combo, go nuts. Any experienced tank should know how to tank swap by now! Lol it does make things more fluid but to me it's more annoying popping this - especially when the other tank is same ilvl

[Keldon]

A lot of people are missing one of the side benefits of shirk: it's not just for tank swaps! I was doing deltascape 2.0 last night with a tank friend of mine. After a minute or two into the fight (so there was a bit of a enmity lead) I would, as the OT (READ: spare dps in this fight) provoke the boss and instantly shirk back onto the MT, essentially giving him +25% of his current enmity. From then on I repeated that every time it was off CD, which meant the DRK never had to use a enmity combo after that, even with good dps that were pushing the meter earlier in the fight.

As already stated it makes tank swaps so much more comfortable as well, you don't really need to be careful after a swap and the new tank only needs to use at most 1 enmity combo at the swap.

[Mnemosynia]

Shirk was not needed, all you needed to do was drop tank stance (if you were in it) have the OT Provoke and do one aggro combo.
Or If you werent in tank stance go into your dps rotation, have OT provoke and use aggro combo he may have needed to enter tank stance he may not depending on his damage.

Any tank that runs shirk is running it because they have no idea how to play a tank in an optimal way it is not a dps gain it's simply a way for a tank to be less mindful. To think that they gave tanks shirk instead of a role skill charge or maybe damage share or something. Nope they give us a tool that tanks were existing fine without.

And if any of you say no we needed it sophia ex was a perfect example of tank doing massive amounts of tank swaps with out shirk the only purpose I see it have is what the OP did which troll baddies and trash talkers for being assholes.

A lot of people are missing one of the side benefits of shirk: it's not just for tank swaps! I was doing deltascape 2.0 last night with a tank friend of mine. After a minute or two into the fight (so there was a bit of a enmity lead) I would, as the OT (READ: spare dps in this fight) provoke the boss and instantly shirk back onto the MT, essentially giving him +25% of his current enmity. From then on I repeated that every time it was off CD, which meant the DRK never had to use a enmity combo after that, even with good dps that were pushing the meter earlier in the fight.

As already stated it makes tank swaps so much more comfortable as well, you don't really need to be careful after a swap and the new tank only needs to use at most 1 enmity combo at the swap.

So you to find the skill useful u have to be playing next to an underperforming tank whilst blowing provoke which is extremely important cd if something were to go wrong like the MT dying and you need to pick up aggro before the boss kills other members of the raid.

Right...you may enjoy tanking but your ability to way cost to benefit while tanking is seriously lacking.

[Linx0r]

I do see value to this but honestly if people are saying that we get so much more dps out of using it because of other tanks holding back, I believe the savings is seriously minimal (half a combo or one ocd?). I'm playing advocate to this as I just find this silly as tank swaps have been going on since coil and any (sorry....don't mean to be offensive) tank who knows their own salt doesn't need shirk. No way someone voking off the mt should still have agro if the ot has switched to dps stance and still combining properly. Sorry being the advocate here and not trying to undermine anyone but to just show my perspective. I have farmed suz and pretty much all prior top end fight to this point. If half a combo of a tanks not meeting max dps and the raid fails, that's a dps issue not a tank issue

[Linx0r]

I agree with you!

[SpookyGhost]

I do see value to this but honestly if people are saying that we get so much more dps out of using it because of other tanks holding back, I believe the savings is seriously minimal (half a combo or one ocd?).

Confused, what do you mean by "other tanks holding back"? Do you mean when using Shirk one of the tanks has to hold something back? If so, that's not the case, the thing that changes when using Shirk is that neither tank needs to use their enmity combo which (on all three tanks) is a DPS loss. So you only gain from using Shirk, there's no loss.

[Mnemosynia]

Confused, what do you mean by "other tanks holding back"? Do you mean when using Shirk one of the tanks has to hold something back? If so, that's not the case, the thing that changes when using Shirk is that neither tank needs to use their enmity combo which (on all three tanks) is a DPS loss. So you only gain from using Shirk, there's no loss.

He is saying the benefit to running shirk is so minimal if you have two competent tanks its pointless to run it at all i agree aswell, tank swaping has been in ff for eons, and they weren't forgiving tank swaps either they were tank swaps if failed the mt will die leaving the raid and OT in a precarious position, he's not saying shirk is useless he saying its may aswell be if people know what they are doing.

[FPZ]

Honestly, this thread.

If you're seriously offended by Shirk and using comments along the lines of "only a bad tank who isn't optimal would take shirk" (paraphrase) then you are truly misinformed, uneducated and most likely the bad tank in the situation here. It's not exclusively about the concept of tank-swapping, it's about being able to safely tank swap and open a fight with your damage combo, thus gaining more potency and overall damage at every tank swap over the course of a 10 minute fight by replacing your aggro combo with a higher damage combo, simple.

I welcome anyone bashing Shirk & the tanks that select it to show me their damage logs, kill videos or hard research as to why Shirk is bad and the people choosing it are bad, as opposed to fabricated anecdotes about how tank swapping has historically been fine without Shirk therefore we don't need it, talk about one dimensional huh? Get with the times please.

Shirk Benefits:
- A DPS gain at every tank-swap.
- Ability to open a fight without tank stance when paired with a Ninja's shadewalker.
- Ability to keep heavy aggro generated from high DPS melee at bay.
- An overall DPS gain between both tanks. This alone is a good enough reason.

In before "dps? lol, you're a tank who cares".

[Mnemosynia]

Honestly, this thread.

Shirk Benefits:
- A DPS gain at every tank-swap.
- Ability to open a fight without tank stance when paired with a Ninja's shadewalker.
- Ability to keep heavy aggro generated from high DPS melee at bay.
- An overall DPS gain between both tanks. This alone is a good enough reason.

In before "dps? lol, you're a tank who cares".

2 Of your points are the same.
3 Out of 4 of your points require 1 or both tanks to be bad.
And lastly, no it does not allow you to start the fight without tank stance.

As for the dps gain portion wouldn't taking about cd that reducing damage taken be a better dps gain due to the ability to stay out of tank stance longer?
I have got to say people are going about like we needed this for the past 3 years, tank swap is easy and so far remains to be easy shirk is a wasted slot mainly because of the job that it does can be handled with provoke which your bringing anyways, regardless of circumstance or comp or the fight.

Which allows you to put lets see any other role skill in that slot.
Redundant utility is just that redundant.