I miss the old WAR decision making.

[Reynhart]

It doesn't matter what they want to enforce, we'll do whatever we can to contribute to the group.

Right now, we have no idea on how Savage will scale. My guess, when it comes to WAR, is that the windows you'll have between two damage spikes will be too short to really make up for the gauge penalty. Exactly how PLD would lose DPS if they had to swap stances back and forth when it interrupted combos.

But that's only my guess, we'll see the real situation in two weeks.

WAR is the job designed to switch stances on the regular while being punished for it.

WAR was the job designed to switch stances back and forth in 3.x. Now, with the gauge penalty, things have changed. You're free to dislike that new design, but it's how it is for now.

Yes I know that already, but war has only berserk and only equilibrium on a 60s cd, while pld has requiescat and convalescence for clemency, so either you can't compare the 2 at all or drop the healing part and say they're the same imo

You can compare the two by themselves to say if they're the same or not. If you want to analyze wich job has a better toolkit, then you'll have to include other skills. And on that, yes, PLD currently has a better one. I never said otherwise.

[aleph_null]

Right now, we have no idea on how Savage will scale. My guess, when it comes to WAR, is that the windows you'll have between two damage spikes will be too short to really make up for the gauge penalty. Exactly how PLD would lose DPS if they had to swap stances back and forth when it interrupted combos.

But that's only my guess, we'll see the real situation in two weeks.

My point was that going into raid with the mentality "tanks should be in tank stance" is as bad as going with "tanks should wear all slaying and be in dps stance" since you should be able to adjust based on the fights and the group's needs. I've seen countless wipes due to tanks and healers (including myself) being too greedy with dps, but I've also seen countless failed dps checks that could have been avoided if the tanks and healers contributed more, or if the group strategy was optimized for better dps uptime, despite higher risks, especially in low ilv progression.

[Reynhart]

My point was that going into raid with the mentality "tanks should be in tank stance" is as bad as going with "tanks should wear all slaying and be in dps stance" since you should be able to adjust based on the fights and the group's needs.

Considering the person I quoted described a worst case scenario to justify how PLD would be miles above WAR, sprinkled with a bit of "shut up, you stupid PLDs!", I think my answer is approriate.

[Alphras]

WAR was the job designed to switch stances back and forth in 3.x. Now, with the gauge penalty, things have changed. You're free to dislike that new design, but it's how it is for now.

The part that requires stance switching didn't change though. They just added the penalty and another ability that requires Deliverance on top. That is the problem.

I would be happy with a coherent design for WAR.

[Reynhart]

The part that requires stance switching didn't change though.

For me, it really feel like when they added casting time to BRD. In 3.x, keeping the mobility you had in 2.x was a huge damage penatly. In 4.x, keeping the stance dancing you had in 3.x comes with a huge penatly.

Personally, I'd keep some kind of penatly to prevent transfering 100 beast gauge, but I'll make it so that you'd only lose your gauge above 50. And I would also make tanking in Defiance more appealing by increasing healing received to 25%, working on any kind of healing, and trading Inner Beast bypass of damage penatly for a potency of 450.

[Baci]

For me, it really feel like when they added casting time to BRD. In 3.x, keeping the mobility you had in 2.x was a huge damage penatly. In 4.x, keeping the stance dancing you had in 3.x comes with a huge penatly.

Personally, I'd keep some kind of penatly to prevent transfering 100 beast gauge, but I'll make it so that you'd only lose your gauge above 50. And I would also make tanking in Defiance more appealing by increasing healing received to 25%, working on any kind of healing, and trading Inner Beast bypass of damage penatly for a potency of 450.

I think that would actually the best solution. Keeping a penalty while not making it too harsh on the dependency of Switching stances

[Dizzy_Derp]

Or you could, you know...tank in tank stance. In case the recent changes are not big enough hints that it's what SE want to enforce.

It doesnt matter what they want sitting in tank stance is bad. I will back out midpull to kick a tank for sitting in tank stance because they are a burdon on the group and hindering the clear chance for playing like shit. so many people wanna be like "but se wants you to." or "i don't wanna do damage I just wanna tank! Waa!" Gtfo. You are being lazy and not learning how to play the game, guess what tank stance baby? You are getting carried. You are not pulling your weight and you need to get better. You are wasting peoples time by playing like that, dragging out fights and dungeons wasing players time and some people have a limited amount of time to pay this game.

[Reynhart]

It doesnt matter what they want sitting in tank stance is bad.

Again, context :

When one of your healers is dead and the other healer is struggling to keep things under control

If you kick your WAR because he keep his tank stance and use Inner Beast instead of Fell Cleave in the context above, then you're just a jerk.

Oh, and by the way, if you stay in DPS stance all the time because you don't want to lose some of your precious DPS, you're also being carried...by your healers.

People tend to claim that having less HP of being in DPS stance will totally change how you manage the fight, but it's wrong. You'll still do the same damage rotation since its the best, you'll still use the same CD since your rotation is totally linked to the scripted fight. Basically, you play exactly the same, you just do higher damage numbers. Your healer, on the other hand, will have much more pressure on him because you removed his safety net.

[Tegernako]

Oh, and by the way, if you stay in DPS stance all the time because you don't want to lose some of your precious DPS, you're also being carried...by your healers.

Almost as if...stance dancing is encouraged for WAR.


Like you should use tank stance when it makes sense and switch to dps stance when it makes sense.

What is this strange concept?

[Reynhart]

Almost as if...stance dancing is encouraged for WAR.

No hard DPS checks had required you to stance dance since Gordias outside World First Race, Tank damage was reduced so that the gap between full DPS stance uptime and full tank stance uptime lost a lot of its weight on the overall raid DPS
Almost as if... harassing people for not stance dancing is discouraged