A detailed Reaction to Warrior in SB

[Dizzy_Derp]

Also SE made the class dumber to play. Any skill ceiling it used to have is now gone.

Uh I don't believer your playing the Cass you think Im am now covinced you think your playing war but are actually on drk cause war got way way insanely more complex. Like the skill ceiling is retardely high, more so than the majority of dps jobs. By far the most complex tank we have EVER had. You are constantly watching gauge trying to plan 5 gcds ahead to make sure you don't cap and spend bg in the best way while watching your eye and deciding which almost your gonna need. You alternate between shit zero and super zero and timing has to be perfect or your rotation is thrown into limbo. The opener is. Aries you need three and alternates of those three for comp and mechanical timing. Lost a berserk window cause of mechs? Grats, your ast is out dpsing you.

[Tegernako]

Uh I don't believer your playing the Cass you think Im am now covinced you think your playing war but are actually on drk cause war got way wayinsanely more complex. Like the skill ceiling is retardely high, more so than the majority of dps jobs. By far the most complex tank we have EVER had. You are constantly watching gauge trying to plan 5 gcds ahead to make sure you don't cap and spend bg in the best way while watching your eye and deciding which almost your gonna need. You alternate between shit zero and super zero and timing has to be perfect or your rotation is thrown into limbo. The opener is. Aries you need three and alternates of those three for comp and mechanical timing. Lost a berserk window cause of mechs? Grats, your ast is out dpsing you.

I think I get what they are getting at. The class is simplified simply by nature of you spamming storms path so much. Anyone can use eye then spam path and use FC or IB.

However the actual skill ceiling to perform anywhere near the level of PLD is quite high for either equal or less gain.

So for people who don't take into account what you mentioned, the class is simpler. For us though who could do three combos, three FC's, and a fracture/brutal swing in one berserk, who could tank in deliverance the class is more complicated for zero gain.

So in a nutshell, you're both right but for slightly different reasons.

[Dizzy_Derp]

I think I get what they are getting at. The class is simplified simply by nature of you spamming storms path so much. Anyone can use eye then spam path and use FC or IB.

However the actual skill ceiling to perform anywhere near the level of PLD is quite high for either equal or less gain.

So for people who don't take into account what you mentioned, the class is simpler. For us though who could do three combos, three FC's, and a fracture/brutal swing in one berserk, who could tank in deliverance the class is more complicated for zero gain.

So in a nutshell, you're both right but for slightly different reasons.

Didn't think about it that way but your right, if your not actually trying to to push your dps maybe it is simple.

[mcspamm]

As a fellow WAR main, thank you for airing these grievances!

I almost completely agree with you, with my one exception being Onslaught.

After playing WAR 70 for some time, my only beef with Onslaught is that I can't use it to enter combat (inability to pull with Tomawhawk -> Onslaught -> Equilibrium). IMO, the potency is fine, the recast is fine, and the gauge cost is bearable.

At its core, I agree that the WAR changes revolve around an identity crisis.

Many of us WAR mains largely predicted this issue after the media tour preview:

The Ugly

Loss of Identity
The biggest problem I have with WAR moving into Stormblood is the lack of a unique identity.

The battle system changes have shoehorned WAR into a Fell Cleave / Decimate bot that brings nothing unique to parties anymore.

While I'm glad that Storm's Path was changed and that SAM and NIN can each easily apply their own slashing buffs now, these changes in conjunction with the battle system rework leave WAR in an awkward position.

PLD and DRK are each getting their own high damage burst abilities (Requiescat with Holy Spirit for PLD, Bloodspiller and Quietus for DRK - although the latter look like they could use some help), so while WAR will be able to land six Fell Cleaves or Decimates, our burst is no longer a unique selling point outside of AoE situations.

Furthermore, many of WAR's new abilities are largely muddled clones of existing abilities. Onslaught is a confused version of Plunge. Upheaval is a copy-paste of Spirits Within. Shake It Off is a better version of Tempered Will, a very situational PLD cooldown.

Finally, with the changes to Path and Eye, and the addition of Intervention for PLD and The Blackest Night for DRK, WAR no longer offers any unique utility to groups that other jobs don't already have access to. When coupled with the loss of Bloodbath and penalties to stance dancing, the only thing WAR seems to have going for it compared with the other tanks is higher AoE burst damage.

Thankfully, Upheaval is much better than I initially gave it credit (the English wording was ambiguous), but outside of that, I'm disappointed that nothing else was changed before the final release. :/

The theory that SB WAR wasn't finished in time would explain a lot.

I'm hoping for some proper damage and QoL boosts to WAR and DRK in 4.05 - there's still time to remedy these wrongs (Please leave Paladin alone!).

[Tegernako]

I said the same thing about pre-SB release WAR but people absolutely raged on me. I ended up deleting my thread about it because the discussion was so toxic and personal =/

[Mycow8me]

If they would just replace unchained with warriors own form of bloodbath... I could be mostly satisfied with the class aside from the beastgauge loss switching (still think it should be a 10-20 flat rate not half). Unchained just isn't nearly as useful as the DPS variant for deliverance, it just doesn't fit in with defiance.

[jazzcatte]

I think I get what they are getting at. The class is simplified simply by nature of you spamming storms path so much. Anyone can use eye then spam path and use FC or IB.

I don't really think eye-path-path is any more 'difficult' a rotation than eye-block or eye-eye was. The difficulty of the class is (and always was) about maximizing your burst windows, something which is much harder now because it requires making sure you're hitting 100 beast without wasting any precisely as berserk comes off CD, plus handling the bizarre timing of infuriate now.

[Marxam]

I could not write it better, good job in making this thread.

I played as war in HW, and I agree 100% with you.

Normally I never voice up my thoughts, but I am so so utterly disappointed.
I mean, do they not play their own game?
The whole experience in game play as war, changed.

How is it even possible.....

I'm pretty quiet too, but I was so disappointed in SB that I had to come on here and voice my disappointment.

Thanks for speaking up guys. SE needs to know that it's not fun to play the class in its current state. Far too cumbersome and penalties on changing stances make it less rewarding and more annoying to play. Let's not have a repeat of war 2.0 in 4.0 please. We are already at a point where utility far outweighs tank dps since tank dps is roughly equal atm and war has no utility guess what happens?

[Tegernako]

I don't really think eye-path-path is any more 'difficult' a rotation than eye-block or eye-eye was. The difficulty of the class is (and always was) about maximizing your burst windows, something which is much harder now because it requires making sure you're hitting 100 beast without wasting any precisely as berserk comes off CD, plus handling the bizarre timing of infuriate now.

Difference is with HW using BB, SP, or SE in a optimal way was harder to learn then using path till eye hits 9 seconds and occasionally fitting in BB when you think you might lose aggro.

[Dizzy_Derp]

Difference is with HW using BB, SP, or SE in a optimal way was harder to learn then using path till eye hits 9 seconds and occasionally fitting in BB when you think you might lose aggro.

I really dont tbink thats the case. Outside of prog or intense incoming damage you weren't using path. And 99% of the time if you used block you were fucking up. It was seriously just eye spam. 3.x war was probably the easiest class i ever played.