Hissatsu: Seigan should reduce enmity

[Verius_Nox]

So rather than be a good tank, you'd rather punish the dps for doing a great job? I mean, I guess I could always just 1-2-3 1-2-3 and ignore my role as a DPS, but the only reason to ever shirk a DPS is if they keep pulling, in which case all you're doing is being a good OT and helping them hold hate.

But nah, abuse the dps that's doing their job so they just AFK auto attack, sure I'll do that as you wish, master~

Think you totally misinterpreted the cause of the action. If you're purposely not utilizing Diversion, and trying to actively pull threat from the tank, then you're just being a hindrance. The overall team could pull off more DPS if you used Diversion, allowing the tank to safely use their higher potency combos.

But I mean, feel free to be a dick. Like I said, two can play that game.

[Ryaz]

I've really only pulled hate from bad tanks in dungeons on mob packs. Very rarely do I pull hate on a boss if the tanks is properly doing their job especially if I start out with Diversion on my opening rotation.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

But I mean, feel free to be a dick. Like I said, two can play that game.

Incidentally I gave up on Diversion because even on MCH I never see tanks leave tank stance, so I just slot in more utility because Diversion is useless if they aren't dps stancing.

Or you could try reading? Using Diversion in exchange of other more useful utility is borderline worthless on a tank that insists on camping 24/7 in tank stance. It's a more logical use to instead slot in different utility like goad or Feint to help the healers or actual dps out then take something that a tank would get no benefit from.

None of this even touches on the fact that Diversion is next to worthless on a SAM due to their opening burst being well into the first minute of the fight, not the first fifteen seconds, where the tank would actually struggle in the first place.

And that is the point where I'd just Shirk you, and laugh.

It's fun, right?

Sure, great fun. I'd just be rezzed and casually watch a 90 second fight turn into a 5 minute crawl cause you chose to punish the one dps that's actually doing their job. I'll be laughing while grabbing a drink~ After all, if good performance is punished, obviously all I should do is chat, right?

Good performance means nothing if you're purposely being a hindrance. For every player that's like you, there's another who plays just as well, but also thinks about more than just themselves.

Sure thing Champ! I'm sure there's an overabundance of quality dps, right? Not like there's a reason the Duty Finder thread exist. Honestly, as a tank, I'd be infinitely more impressed if a dps COULD even come close to my enmity in DPS stance. Have yet to see it happen in five years.

[Verius_Nox]

Or you could try reading?

NO. It's fun as hell to be nipping at the tanks heels! One of my favorite moments playing SAM was ripping off my BiS STR SwO tank friend in an expert roulette and forcing him to use extra aggro combos to keep the hate off me. :c

And that is the point where I'd just Shirk you, and laugh.

It's fun, right?

[Uriel_Kross]

This goes both ways, when i play SAM i dont use diversion but at the same time when i notice i am pulling hate i switch targets. As a tank i generally attack the target taking the most damage with my enmity combo so hate does not get pulled.

[Shurrikhan]

If anything, shouldn't the enmity decrease be attached to Yaten instead?

Though I'd prefer it be attached to neither, of course—or even have an enmity increase on Seigan and a less laughable Third Eye effect—and for SE to simply fix tank AP scaling.

I kind of agree purely because seigan is a defensive stance where the attacker limits their offense to put themselves in a position where they can step back from enemy attacks. As it is right now it's just a counter attack that only increases offense, pretty much the exact opposite of what seigan stance is.

A riposte is a counterattack.
A zwercchau a high horizontal strike poised on a raise palm that strikes with the false edge and would be ineffective anywhere but to the neck or eyes with a sword as light as a rapier.
Redoublement is a direct return to a parried or otherwise displaced line of attack.
Unchained lacks the CC-break of its shared recast ability, Inner Release.

We're expecting sensible naming from this game, still?

[Verius_Nox]

Sure, great fun. I'd just be rezzed and casually watch a 90 second fight turn into a 5 minute crawl cause you chose to punish the one dps that's actually doing their job. I'll be laughing while grabbing a drink~ After all, if good performance is punished, obviously all I should do is chat, right?

Good performance means nothing if you're purposely being a hindrance. For every player that's like you, there's another who plays just as well, but also thinks about more than just themselves.

[Shurrikhan]

Good performance means nothing if you're purposely being a hindrance. For every player that's like you, there's another who plays just as well, but also thinks about more than just themselves.

Let's see, in this proposed scenario...
> The DPS took a less used role skill like Feint, also to the tank's benefit, over Diversion due to most tanks being unwilling to actually maximize DPS.
>> Hadn't even take hate before the tank literally transferred their enmity over to them, for kicks.

Which role isn't doing their job there?

[Feidam]

In all the times I've done dungeons as a SAM, and even the first time I did the Omega 1-4, I've had no trouble with enmity. I don't use Diversion, sure, but that's cause I've never needed it. I don't know. It's weird. I'm not saying it's not a problem, I'm just saying I might be an outlier.

Although the occasional time I did see myself taking a lot of hate, I would stop attacking for a bit. Not sure if that's a good thing.

Diversion mean you don't have to stop or slow dpsing. Hell use it a the start of the fight and usually you are golden the entire fight. Having to slow or stop dps is a dps loss.

[HoLoFoNo]

Diversion isn't a magical tool that means you will never pull agro from a tank. Considering the nonsense dps SAM can pull, there is nothing wrong with giving them a emnity dump also. This only applies to groups that are trying to speedkill though as those are the only times outside absolute shitters where agro is currently an issue. When the tank is trying to pull near 3k dps they can't keep agro effectively even with diversion on CD.