Standings of Black Mage, Red Mage, and Summoner

[Kabooa]

It just sounds like reaching. Like Michael Jordan in Space Jam reaching.

Yeah, that's the thing about magic. It doesn't make sense when you think about it.

[CatStarPrime]

There's always the Alchemist 2.0 questline

[Ariomi]

From what I can see, although I haven't played all three at 70 yet, is that they all fill a niche.

Hate to break it to you...

Black Mage is the Single Target and Aoe King.
Red Mage is a mix of Mobility single target and some Aoe.
Summoner is outperformed by both.

Summoner's Aoe was heavily nerfed and Foul is on a 30 sec timer at 650 potency that does more damage then Ahk morn. (Ahk morn is scaled to a pet and does lower damage.) Triple Flare, Foul, Thunder 4 and Fire 2 easily beat anything Summoner has.

[OgruMogru]

Hate to break it to you...

Black Mage is the Single Target and Aoe King.
Red Mage is a mix of Mobility single target and some Aoe.
Summoner is outperformed by both.

Summoner's Aoe was heavily nerfed and Foul is on a 30 sec timer at 650 potency that does more damage then Ahk morn. (Ahk morn is scaled to a pet and does lower damage.) Triple Flare, Foul, Thunder 4 and Fire 2 easily beat anything Summoner has.

It's a shame that providing we don't have another A2 on our hands [please no] Blm won't even be really using their AoE rotation outside of dungeons.

[soslinky]

Hate to break it to you...

Black Mage is the Single Target and Aoe King.
Red Mage is a mix of Mobility single target and some Aoe.
Summoner is outperformed by both.

Summoner's Aoe was heavily nerfed and Foul is on a 30 sec timer at 650 potency that does more damage then Ahk morn. (Ahk morn is scaled to a pet and does lower damage.) Triple Flare, Foul, Thunder 4 and Fire 2 easily beat anything Summoner has.

RDM on average is actually bigger deeps than BLM right now on single target (Susano/Lakshmi).

[Ethalio]

quotequotequote

To me it seems you haven't played any other FF game before.

Raise:
I'll cite from the Final Fantasy Wiki and FFXIClopedia, taken from the Raise spell page. (I just took the games with a Job system btw):
FFI: "can be learned by the White Mage, White Wizard, and Red Wizard job classes"
FFIII: "can be used by White Mages, Devouts, Red Mages, and Sages."
FFV: "Raise is a level 3 White Magic ability that can be used by White Mages and Red Mages."
FFXI: Jobs: "Level 25 White Mage | Level 35 Scholar | Level 38 Red Mage | Level 50 Paladin"

Drain:
FFIII: "Drain is a Black Magic level 7 spell"
FFV: "Drain is a level 4 Black Magic spell."
FFXI: "Drain is a Dark Magic spell available to Dark Knights, Black Mages, Geomancers and Scholars." In FFXI black magic is categorized in elemental, dark, enfeebliing and enhancing magic.

To sum it up: Raise has always been a white magic spell traditionally available to WHM and RDM. Drain has always been a black magic spell available to BLM. IMO no further discussion is needed on that topic

[Cherub]

So I have all 3 Casters at 70 and played all of them in extreme primals. My FFLogs isn't as extreme as, say, Eirene Snow's but I do hover around the 90 percentile. And my early runs aren't even uploaded.
These are the changes I would do and think would help setting all three jobs to a close level.

Summoner

Aetherpact
As it is now, Aetherpact is nothing more than fake utility. It's 15 seconds attack potency up by 5% and damage taken decreased by 5%. For a single target. Which you can't even choose. The amounts of times it went onto the healer that was not DPSing is unreal.
What to change
Make Aetherpact affect the whole party. This would effectvely turn Aetherpact into a good utility skill. The 90 seconds CD which is rather low and the 5% attack potency which affects every job with a 15second duration. This is a good utility skill.

Aetherflow
4.0 SMN is all about aligning your CD's. Keeping everything apart and making the best out of resets and Trance/Demi. This is a lot of stress since the set up the SMN did, get's easily destroyed by a single mechanic. Any second Aetherflow is delayed is a second that results in a DPS loss.
What to change
A simple change to the gauge and DWT. Allow the stacking of aethertrail attunement and Aetherflow both! Also allow the use of aetherflow within DWT while still keeping Aetherflow actions such as Fester or Painflare banned during DWT. This would make Aetherflow management a lot more fluid, a lot less brain exploding and the most important, a LOT less punishing.

Ruin, Ruin III, Ruin IV
The potency is weak. The impact behind Ruin is almost non-existent. WHM has StoneIV, BLM has FireIV, heck even SCH has BroilII. Yet Summoner is stuck with one of it's weakest spells. From the level 1 range. Ruin III and Ruin IV also suffer from low potency. Broil II has more potency than Ruin IV
What to change
People will declare me mad but listen. Have Ruin Mastery additionally replace Ruin with RuinIII
What about the MP cost? Have it adjusted.
What about DWT? There are many Solutions to this one. Increase Ruin III potency within DWT is an example. Make all Ruin III spells instant within DWT is another example. Or heck even both. Or we can take the pvp example and have Ruin IV replace Ruin III within DWT while, if a Ruin IV procs, the next Ruin IV is instant.

Demi-Bahamut
I can't see mukanix!?!?!?!? Said the melee
Great, I am dead!!!! Said the healer
Stop moving and just fking attack!?!?!?!?! Said the Summoner
What to change
First and Foremost, have Bahamut be transparent. Not extremely, but slightly. Furthermore have Bahamut spawn 10-20 Yalms behind the Summoner. And to top it off, make him stationary.
This would give many Summoners an easier time making the best out of him and the party can see what is going on again. Just a side note, Bahamut has 100 yalm range on his attacks anyway. Let us make use of that.

Pet responsiveness
A huge problem even SCH's have to deal with.
What to change
Having everything be instant casts would help alleviate this problem a lot. I'm no programmer but this really has to get better.

I will follow up with BLM and my thoughts about it in my next post

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Red Mage is in an odd spot at the moment. It pulls absurdly high DPS considering the amount of support it offers-- being the only caster who could theoretically replace a healer. I hate advocating for nerfs, however the devs need to revisit what exactly they want the other casts roles to play because Red Mage just outshines them both handily. Part of me wants to say Black Mage should be the near Samurai equivalent for casters. Hard to say where Summoner should fall though.

[Cherub]

What I would change about~

Black Mage

Astral Fire and Umbral Ice
A 13 second window in which you have to fit 9 seconds of casting, an additional 1.5-2.5seconds of casting to keep going.
A problem that is solved with a massive amount of SS.... Which you can not even reach yet. Granted, the more SS you have the easier this hurdle becomes and as a BLM you are going to stack that anyway.
What to change
A simple solution. Extend the timer by 2 seconds. This just gives more breathing room to the BLM.

MP
MP issues on BLM? As odd as it sounds, yes.
Due to specific problems within Umbral Ice and MP ticks, your MP for your next astral fire phase won't be enough to cast 6x Fire IV which is your optimal rotation. This isn't losing DPS to a mechanic. This is losing to luck, this is not a proc and it should not be luck dependent.
What to change
Increase BLM total MP by 1000.
Or have UI decrease MP cost of Ice and Thunder spells by a certain amount.
This would allow for a constantly optimal rotation without breaking the game and allowing the BLM to get additional casts he wasn't supposed to have. (Eg a 7th Fire IV in your normal rotation)

Utility
I personally think a pure DPS Job is a bad idea. It will result in the mess that is 3.XX MNK where it is not a desired job or a mess such as SAM where it outshines all DPS.
What to change
Have Leylines give the party a haste effect. 10% for 20 seconds maybe?

Potency
Give us back potency period.

QoL
Have between the lines replace Leylines when it's up.
Have Fire IV and Blizzard IV switch out each other depending on if you are in AF or UI.
QoL for Summoner
Have Akh Morn replace either Enkindle or Summon Bahamut or even Rouse.
Pets, especially Titan need a sort of Auto Regen.

I am of the mind that jobs should only be nerfed when they are ridiculous. And I don't see that with RDM. I see it is strong, yes but the other 2 casters are just too weak in comparison.
Nerfing RDM will also have others be sour.
I also think buffing Jobs won't make this game "soooo much easier". Omega Savage isn't out yet and they should adjust numbers anyway.

[Lelila38]

Blm is the only caster without any job specific party utility, since they opened our Apoc to all casters. Going by SE's own logic (that they keep quoting when discussion about op Sam arises) our raw dps should be far higher than any other casters, effectively placing us in the same spot as Sam.

What I'd like them to change:
1. Give us back our F4 potency! What was the point in nerfing this in the first place?
2. Increase AF and UI timer by like 1-2 seconds. Would just be a QoL increase with how tight our rotation has become.

We don't need much buffing, but a few tweaks here and there would be nice. It can't be that Rdm, with how faceroll easy and not punishing at all it is to play, pulls higher numbers than us Blm. A difficult to maintain rotation (yes, Blm has a difficult rotation, whoever says different has never played it in an actual fight) should feel rewarding.