Lets stop fighting SE and work with them. What are your ideas?

[Rhaja]

Speaking from a non-dedicated raiding standpoint. They already have a solution to this STR problem; Tenacity. They just need to up the scaling so it's not parry 2.0

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Yes, its main stat would be VIT, even if it's damaging stat is STR.

Seriously?

Tell me plainly how you would define "main stat," please.

[Reynhart]

Tell me plainly how you would define "main stat," please.

The stat that determines what gear you have priority on.

EDIT : Right, our traits too ! Thanks Shao32

[shao32]

Seriously?

Tell me plainly how you would define "main stat," please.

our gear and our own traits define VIT is our main stat, damage stats dont have to be our main stat at all, until stormblood healers main stat was and is mind how only affect healing outpot now they damage scale with mind too but that was desing choise of how silly was the comunity around cleric stance.

[Dalmacus]

our gear and our own traits define VIT is our main stat, damage stats dont have to be our main stat at all, until stormblood healers main stat was and is mind how only affect healing outpot now they damage scale with mind too but that was desing choise of how silly was the comunity around cleric stance.

You have to be a real lazy or just plain bad player if you can't cleric stance dance as a healer in 3.X.
In JP servers the majority of the healers here does cleric stance dance all the time in ID and savage content and nobody ever says i'm a healer i heal only over here.

[Inuakurei]

Ideas coming from a lvl 50 ranger... seems legit.

No really: What is your qualification for suggest Solutions to the actual Trank-Traumata?

Pointless backstory: Was a PLD in FFXI, Lancer in Tera, Templar in Aion, bla bla.

FFXIV backstory: I never bothered to update my loadstone profile thing. That lv50 Bard is from 1.0, back when Bard was more like FFXI's Bard except with a bow. Back then the level cap was 50. When 2.0 dropped they changed the job so much I no longer liked it (hence why its still 50). From there I leveled BLM because the mechanics were interesting. Then when HW dropped I picked up DRK and it's been my main since. I haven't played Paladin or Warrior though so I have no experience there.

[Lyth]

VIT is our main stat since it's the only type of accessories we can need on, and eventually wear. The fact that it's not our damaging stat is irrelevant. And, by the way, Piety is not a main stat anymore, so you can't make that comparison.

The historical designation of Piety as one of two healer "main stats" was arbitrary. If you recall, SCH and AST used to bring Piety party buffs instead of Mind, but the playerbase raised their concerns about this and the devs eventually realised that this approach was unnecessarily convoluted. The result is that most jobs have fixed MP values, and healers have the ability to titrate their MP based off of where they are in progression. They listened to player feedback, and the stat system is better for it. They're kind of asking for feedback here too, which is why this is pretty important to get right.

Controlling HP levels on gear is not difficult, either. Every job in the game has VIT on their gear, and higher level gear has more VIT. Your HP is determined by your gear tier. But at no point do we pretend that this is a primary stat for these roles. The reason why the devs are obsessed with making VIT into a tank stat is because they want tanks to feel "more tanky" with higher levels of gear. But the solution to this is not more HP. If you really wanted to create this sort of an effect, you'd have to re-purpose a stat like Tenacity as a main stat, and have it scale appropriately to influence damage, mitigation, and recieved healing (from all sources, not just lifesteal). I think one of the reasons why Tenacity is limited at the moment is because there is a lot of variation in secondary stats, so it's a lot harder to control the %DR unless it scales really, really poorly. You could have it scale a lot more briskly if it was gained at a fixed rate by gear tier, as primary stats are.

Roles like tanking and healing are complex because they have many functions. But if you were able to design a single, primary stat which encompasses both damage output and healing in Mind, then why can't you simply design a primary stat which encompasses both damage output, mitigation, and received healing for tanks? The bottom line is, tanks want to scale in performance with gear, and just tossing some extra HP on tank gear does not influence performance. It doesn't even make you "tankier", outside of superficially impressing people with your HP bar.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

our gear and our own traits define VIT is our main stat

I think main stats are defined by gameplay.

[Reynhart]

But the solution to this is not more HP.

This is not just more HP. You should make this more HP relevant, and the way to do it is to have higher HP checks. Of course, no super tight HP checks to the point that lacking 100 HP will get you killed, but, at least, ensuring that have the full benefit of your ilvl on your Vitality.

But if you were able to design a single, primary stat which encompasses both damage output and healing in Mind, then why can't you simply design a primary stat which encompasses both damage output, mitigation, and received healing for tanks?

For the damage part, they don't want our damage to go that high. Even if healers can benefit from MMD on both damage and healing, their offensive potencies are nowhere near those of real DPS...while Tanks has base potencies close or even better than most DPS jobs. For mitigation, we already have defense and magic defense, since they are tied directly to your gear, it works very close to a "primary" stat. For healing, yeah, sure, Vit could affect healing received...but would it really change the problem ? As long as healers can surpass bosses' DPS "easily", more VIT would only result in more overcure.

I think main stats are defined by gameplay.

They showed that they cand arbitrary decide what main stats are when they released NIN.

[Inuakurei]

If they want the DPS tank meta gone ALL THE TANKS NEED A MASSIVE REDESIGN.

I agree, which is why I want this thread to be about ideas on how to do that within feasible limits. I don't think there's any way we are going to come out of this without some sort of rework in either our gear, stats, or abilities.

The reason that some tanks are comfortable "ignoring their main stat" as you say is because HP is not our main stat, any more than MP is a healer's main stat. More HP does not make you easier to heal. More HP does not "mitigate" damage. The reason why people can max-min like this is because they look at the incoming damage, determine what the safety threshold is, and work around it.

I disagree that VIT is not our main stat, but I agree that its very lackluster and something needs to be done about it.

VIT is indeed our main stat, its why gear made specifally for us have the biggest number next to VIT. With that being said, its true that extra VIT does not help and that is the issue. Either tweak VIT to make make it more desirable, or change our main stat to something else (more difficult).