As a new player, running through the Praetorium dungeon was the worst

[Yshnal]

I have some questions for the rushers: why do you run these two dungeons? It's obviously not to help, so that means that you're after the exp/tomes. Those get doubled for each and every vet player if there's a newbie (it means that you are effectively doing two runs at once), which in turn saves you the time of:
1) queuing again
2) running the dungeon once more, or any other one

Can you explain us already why do you think that you deserve to get these perks without doing an effort to get them?

[AngeloFlick]

^^ You just get poetics tomestones doubled, which are only useful if you're working on your relic or gearing an alt. The last two times I ran MSQ roulette I was poetics capped because I have nothing to spend them on.
^^There is no veteran exp bonus for having first timers in your group, just the bonus you get for doing a roulette.

It's been said by a few other people already but I'll add my voice to the pile as well.
When I first did Castrum/Praetorium back in the day, my friend warned me that I would need to skip cutscenes because people would be speedrunning so I did and watched them later. Now that I'm speedrunning, if someone wants to watch the cutscenes instead of skipping to do fights they can, I don't mind. I won't say anything and I won't kick them. But I'm not waiting. If it becomes mandatory, I will never queue for the MSQ roulette ever again. I have limited playtime and I run those duties for the exp and tomestones. And its not because I don't care about the story because I do watch all the MSQ cutscenes. Just not when other people are waiting on me.

[Nixxe]

I have some questions for the rushers: why do you run these two dungeons? It's obviously not to help, so that means that you're after the exp/tomes. Those get doubled for each and every vet player if there's a newbie (it means that you are effectively doing two runs at once), which in turn saves you the time of:
1) queuing again
2) running the dungeon once more, or any other one

Can you explain us already why do you think that you deserve to get these perks without doing an effort to get them?

I'm not sure what's so difficult for you to understand, but the queue is not a contract to sit through cutscenes. It's an attempt to motivate self-interested players to fill out parties so new players can at least get through the dungeons. They are living up to their end by completing the dungeon. The two obvious rewards are poetics and the XP bonus at the end.

[Nixxe]

please remove your head from where the sun don't shine. as I stated, i ran this for my g/f 4+ times as we 2-man it. it did not take us an hour to run BOTH cm and prae. She watched all the cs, and i waited. most cs are 10-20 secs long. the longest CS's are around the ultima fight at 2 min in total. so please stop acting rude. People with attitudes like your do not belong in mmo. Newbies should come first. i've seen this thread pop up 40 times if not more since ARR 2.1 when i started, my g/f seen it more times as she started at launch.

Even befoe the msq roulette was added people acted like this.

My attitude is what, exactly? That we should value the time of everyone in the group and not demand the entire world revolve around us? Because as I mentioned earlier, I skipped these cutscenes when I was going through the first time because I felt it was unfair to the rest of the group. Had I known how undertuned the dungeon was, I might not have, but regardless, I would never be so utterly self-centered as to demand everyone else sit around twiddling their thumbs for 35 minutes when there are other workable options available to me. I watch every cutscene the first time through and I afford the same opportunity to others, which is why I won't complain if people are watching cutscenes in these dungeons, but my time and that of the other players in the group has value too and we are not just bots there for the benefit of the new player. It is unreasonable to expect us to sit around waiting for them to finish all of their cutscenes and if they try to force us to do so, we'll simply abandon MSQ roulette. Should something like that happen, I expect to see the lot of you that are complaining about what horrible people we are doing as many runs each day as you need to in order to make sure all of the sprouts get through in a timely fashion, your own in-game goals and real world responsibilities be damned.

I mean at 10-20 seconds long, sounds more like your girlfriend just skipped all of the cutscenes and what you were waiting on was her load times.

[Vhailor]

It's not an exaggeration, as you'd likely need to do multiple runs per day to make up for all of the slack created by doing as the other poster wants and kicking everyone who won't stand around for 35 minutes in Praetorium out of the MSQ roulette. The rest of your post really just proves my point that people aren't the least bit concerned with the consequences of their demands for "purity."

Pure speculation here. As others have suggested, there are plenty of ideas out there to convert the MSQ dungeons to solo instances at this point, eliminating the problem entirely.

More to the point, again - queueing for the MSQ is effectively saying "I'm willing to help people." That in and of itself is laudable. But when you then have an expectation that players sacrifice the storyline (not a preference for skipping, but an imposed expectation), you're quite probably causing more harm than good in a lot of ways. Case in point, when I returned to XIV about six months ago, I created a new character so I could get in the swing of things before jumping into Heavensward. When I queued for Castrum and Praetorium, even though I'd known they were rushed in the past, I was still stunned. I'd have vastly preferred to wait for a couple of hours and get a proper experience. The thing is, though, there's no option for this in the Duty Finder. The PF is a possibility for a player like me, but it's a lot to expect new players ("sprouts" as you call them) to know in advance that they need to use it to ensure a quality experience in the final storyline missions.

My point being, you seem to view half-arsed rushed help as being better than none at all - but my own experience, and likely that of others, begs to differ.

It's telling though that you're just openly insulting me while I'm being at least moderately polite and civil. But yeah, I'm the bad guy.

Yes, it is. It's telling that speed runs are so disruptive to the feel of the final few missions that they still bring anger out of me years later. The behaviour of people in these dungeons, led primarily by tanks (who ultimately control the pace of progression), is horrific. And no, I don't personally feel like you should get to pat yourself on the back and think 'at least I'm kind of helping' when partial help is worse than none at all for many players.

[Skivvy]

More to the point, again - queueing for the MSQ is effectively saying "I'm willing to help people." That in and of itself is laudable.

I think this line right here is at the base of the disagreements. SE designed this particular roulette to help new players get through the old ARR MSQ dungeons/fights quickly. They know it is outdated content and that very few people would willingly queue up for those particular instances. The desire to help new players is SE's idea, not the player's.

So what do they offer in order to lure people into the instances? Exp and tomes. I can obviously only speak for myself, but I only run the MSQ for these reasons. I imagine this is the main reason anyone runs. Perhaps there are a few angels who do it out of the kindness of their heart, but I highly doubt that is the driving force for the majority of the playerbase. Take away tomes and exp, and you will see how quickly the altruism dries up.

[Nixxe]

Pure speculation here. As others have suggested, there are plenty of ideas out there to convert the MSQ dungeons to solo instances at this point, eliminating the problem entirely.

More to the point, again - queueing for the MSQ is effectively saying "I'm willing to help people." That in and of itself is laudable. But when you then have an expectation that players sacrifice the storyline (not a preference for skipping, but an imposed expectation), you're quite probably causing more harm than good in a lot of ways. Case in point, when I returned to XIV about six months ago, I created a new character so I could get in the swing of things before jumping into Heavensward. When I queued for Castrum and Praetorium, even though I'd known they were rushed in the past, I was still stunned. I'd have vastly preferred to wait for a couple of hours and get a proper experience. The thing is, though, there's no option for this in the Duty Finder. The PF is a possibility for a player like me, but it's a lot to expect new players ("sprouts" as you call them) to know in advance that they need to use it to ensure a quality experience in the final storyline missions.

My point being, you seem to view half-arsed rushed help as being better than none at all - but my own experience, and likely that of others, begs to differ.


Yes, it is. It's telling that speed runs are so disruptive to the feel of the final few missions that they still bring anger out of me years later. The behaviour of people in these dungeons, led primarily by tanks (who ultimately control the pace of progression), is horrific. And no, I don't personally feel like you should get to pat yourself on the back and think 'at least I'm kind of helping' when partial help is worse than none at all for many players.

Queuing for MSQ is saying "Oh hey, poetics and and a bunch of experience. Yeah, I think I want those." Anything else is your imagination. You really don't seem to understand what it means that the group is made up of random people, so I'll tell you: It means you don't get to be picky about who joins nor do you get to dictate their motivations to them. If you want people to wait while you watch cutscenes, cool. If the other seven people don't want to wait, too bad for you. Should have made a PF group where you can control who does what and play the big boss. Though yeah, I think getting through content that literally the rest of the game is stuck behind is better than not getting behind it. Again, if this matters to you so much, then go take an active role in fixing it rather than just whining at people on the forums. Can't say skipping cutscenes in Praetorium made me angry or ruined my gaming experience though, but then again, I make a habit of thinking about others and not just trying to hold them hostage until they give into my demands.

And it's funny that you think tanks control the pace. I routinely tank those. I try to at least make sure nobody is locked out while they skip cutscenes. Healers and DPS won't even let me do that much. They don't need me. I'm a convenience, nothing more. The most useful thing tanks do in Praetorium is pull all of the trash on that long run through the wall and down the ramp and I've done that just fine on my WHM by simply Swiftcasting a Holy so I could go down the elevator no problem.

[Dualgunner]

poor excuse showing a youtube vide made for showing the cs. Those are made to showcase the cs, and are slowly viewed so people can read it.

why not film yourself doing a run of both showing cs at your pace and clock in the time.

Took your challenge, here ya go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpCoIjPHbO0

Took about an hour and a half, watching every cutscene and taking my time reading them aloud. Though my voice is literal garbage so you're forgiven if you (or your girl or friend don't want to) watch the whole thing. Also take into account most Lv70 DPS do more damage than an entire Lv50 party combined, so I was pushing through those dungeons faster in some cases than rushing 8 mans would.

It was a fun little side trip though. Got to refresh on a lot of plot points I missed out on my first run through. I highly suggest people go through and replay this just for the story.

[missybee]

Took your challenge, here ya go.

...he actually did it the absolute madman

[Lilseph]

Took your challenge, here ya go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpCoIjPHbO0

...he actually did it the absolute madman

I love this community.

Yeah, no, almost no one does these roulettes "to help newbies". Most of the people do it for fast exp, tomes and the gil bonus. If SR'd properly, these dungeons give a fast income. Also, these dungeons have been SR'd since the begining of ARR when farming for Allagan Tomestone of Philosophy was a thing. It's a bad design on SE's side, placing so many CS in an 8-man dungeon, sadly.