LOLSE, We're not wearing 270 STR to hold hate, c'mon now...

[Kinkoz]

How much is 'enough' in O4s?

We'll have to wait and see, obviously.

[Kinkoz]

However, over the course of Heavensward the community mindset has shifted from "Expect the minimum, commend to exceptional" to "Expect the exceptional, chastise the minimum". Back in 2.X the DRG in your party would have been happy enough to clear without commenting on your DPS.

Back in 2.x, the DRG in your party often ended up dead on the floor, so it's no surprise that they would've been happy to clear without commenting on your DPS.

[Splitinfinity]

While SE do need to make tank changes (especially to accessories and dps scaling), I think that they should impelement a change where dps is increased only by a small amount if they want to remove the dps meta. Meanwhile, I think the bigger issue is that tanks are resistimg change because they want tanks to be low end dps who just happens to be better at holding aggro. If the previous meta was all about dps, why can't tanks accept that square wants to change this? Sure SE needs more work on tank balancing to make it more fun but it seems that most complaints just want the dps meta to continue. Why can't we adapt? If you dont want to tank like this then switch to dps. Sure its gonna affect queues but thats more effective at letting SE know that you have an issue

[Kinkoz]

snip

The reasoning behind this has been discussed to death in threads like these and others. It'd probably help you to understand what the grievances are if you take some time to read through them.

[Baci]

While SE do need to make tank changes (especially to accessories and dps scaling), I think that they should impelement a change where dps is increased only by a small amount if they want to remove the dps meta. Meanwhile, I think the bigger issue is that tanks are resistimg change because they want tanks to be low end dps who just happens to be better at holding aggro. If the previous meta was all about dps, why can't tanks accept that square wants to change this? Sure SE needs more work on tank balancing to make it more fun but it seems that most complaints just want the dps meta to continue. Why can't we adapt? If you dont want to tank like this then switch to dps. Sure its gonna affect queues but thats more effective at letting SE know that you have an issue

So basically. Just switch roles silently and dont give any feedback? Great idea

[Splitinfinity]

I've read this thread and the others and still all I see are tanks who want an increase in dps rather than maximizing and adapting to lower dps desired by SE. Maximizing is making the most of dps regardless if its high or low. What most people want is a return to the previous meta of higher tank dps. Its a refusal to adapt to new changes. In no way am I saying that SE got this perfectly (scaling issues mostly) but I do think that they want tanks to be more of the traditional tanks in the trinity system. If you guys think I dont get it then so be it. Lets agree to disagree. I'm just giving my 2 cents here. To each there own

[Splitinfinity]

So basically. Just switch roles silently and dont give any feedback? Great idea

I'm sure YoshiP knows your concerns by now its just a matter of whether they will implement it or not. You guys now flame others for not supporting your ideas. You've let SE know what you want. Now either continue tanking or switch to dps.

[Kinkoz]

I've read this thread and the others and still all I see are tanks who want an increase in dps rather than maximizing and adapting to lower dps desired by SE.

You seem new, which I won't complain about whatsoever, but, by extension, you also seem to lack an understanding for the way the Tank meta has developed over time.

To put it another way, let's go with your ideal and say we are ultimately forced to live with these new changes and lower our damage thresholds in order to play the newer, harder content. What happens, then, when we do everything that we're capable of doing but, because of our overall lowered damage output, we're unable to properly handle mechanics within certain fights and, taking it a step further, unable to clear certain fights in general on account of the fact that the DPS's output is subpar, which is a problem that, within this context, could have been covered by the Tanks putting out just a bit more damage that, before these adjustments, they were capable of doing? In this instance, you would probably be inclined to answer that it's a DPS problem that the DPS have to resolve on their own, but consider, if you will, that DPS players in general in this game have historically proven to be just as, if not more so, resistant to adjusting their playstyle whatsoever, even if it would result in better performance.

Aside from the desire to play one's Job to their maximum potential, this is another big reason for why a lot Tanks are upset about these changes. It has little to do with any stubbornness or refusal to "adapt", at least on the part of the Tanks.

On a more trivial and unrelated note, you posted an opinion on an open forum, thus opening both yourself and your words up to be judged, criticized, commented on, discussed, and argued by anyone who read them and has the ability to respond. That's no reason to shy away from reception, even if it disagrees with what you stated.

[Splitinfinity]

If the problem was indeed subpar dps in future content and dps roles are played competently enough but is still not enough, then the problem then lies with SE for designing content knowing that the changes they made to the tanks would lead to this outcome. I am inclined to believe that since SE delibirately curbed tank dps at the start of patch 4.0, they would implement new content knowing that subpar dps could become an issue. If they did not then thats a design issue with them. If this is at the heart of tank complaints then thats just refusing to give SE the chance to give appropriate content. On the other hand, the accessory stat scaling should definitely be changed. But if SE does do this, I think that they'd fix it without upping tank dps by a significant amount.
I'm open to your disagreements but I'd rather not add another long argument to this thread so I'll try to end my thoughts with this post

[HoodRat]

The problem is that the large skill gap in this game's player base causes SE to design content where tanks and healers who have a full understanding of both their job and the content are able to focus on dps while still performing the duties relevant to their role. I fail to see how nerfing tank damage fixes the problem; they'll still be focusing on dps, they just won't be doing as much.