REQUEST: Make "trash" mobs hit harder.

[Duelle]

Maybe if we had legitimate CC this would be doable, but there really isn't any to work with.

Edit: Most of what I've dealt with in CC was in City of Heroes, were the CC was pretty powerful. I have no idea how WoW's CC works/worked.

Generally CC came in the form of a couple of abilities:

Polymorph: Mages could turn mobs into sheep/monkeys/turtles to disable them for a set duration.
Freeze Trap: A long-duration incapacitate, used by hunters. A hunter would lay down the trap, pull one of the mobs to themselves and make them trigger the trap.
Sap: Long-duration stun that rogues could use. You'd have the rogue go into Stealth mode before pulling and then sap one of the mobs to remove them from the fight for a good while.
Shackles: Priest ability. Very much like polymorph, but only worked on undead enemies.
Banish: Warlock CC. Like polymorph, but only worked on demons and elementals(?).
Seduction: Channeled CC used by a Warlock with a succubus pet active. Lasted around 20 seconds, but your pet couldn't perform any action.

Honorary mention - Repentance: A 60-second incapacitate used by Retribution Paladins. Used to work only on undead, but then changed in WotLK to work on almost every enemy type. Needless to say, I loved this ability.

During TBC, mages and hunters had near-universal CC skills, while everyone else had limits to how their CC could be used. In dungeons with lots of undead, priests could be helpful with their CC, and the same went for warlocks in instances with demons or elemental creatures. The problem that arose was that when you were putting groups together, you ideally wanted a mage and a hunter in the group, though depending on the dungeon rogues, warlocks and priests could also contribute. As such, DPS slots were basically reserved for mages and hunters unless you could find none. So if you were a fury warrior or feral druid or a non-healer shaman (which got their own CC the expansion after TBC), you were screwed.

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As for the topic, I agree that dungeon mobs in general should pose a greater threat. I wouldn't emulate TBC, because that was taken to a ridiculous extreme where trash mobs in heroics could 3 shot you if you weren't careful and didn't have a healer that brought their A game. Then again, I'm more partial to Wrath's approach, since depending on the pull you still needed to CC and interrupt mobs (CC was REALLY important in content like Heroic Halls of Reflection), while said mobs still hit hard enough that the tank and healer had to pay attention.

[Alestorm]

I remember the days of "LFG Sunwell trash farm, no boss kills". People used to farm trash for greens and blues to be able to even consider fighting a boss because the gear was that much better.

Then the Warrior rolls need on thori'dal and wins it over the 3 hunters.... the salt was real.

[BigRed5392]

Yeah, a lot of us have mentioned that, yet a couple of people continue to ignore it and then tell us how faceroll easy everything is, including Extremes.

ya i know. My g/f died to trash mobs in b. mettle, ala mihgo, and CA (sp) as well as the last boss to CA simply due to the healer thinking dps was more important.

when pulling she pops all three buffs she has access too, conv when her hp goes down tp roughly 50%. Healer don't heal her while its up and conv wears off before they cure. (she tempted to make a macro saying "need healing" when she pops it)

If smn cures hit harder i would have helped, as she gets upset/annoyed when she dies like that(she got flack since day 1 tanking, no matter help she asked for or guides she read. but it made her hyper-sensitive in her performance but she gained a bit of confidence when she tanked in-front of 78 ppl on a live stream, who said she was a good tank.)

she cried once. It was the last boss to CA, she was draining mp trying to mitigate the tank buster attack that adds bleeding. the healer wasn't removing it, nor did they heal her. The healer gave her a lot of flack after my g.f asked why they let her die, al my gf did was refuse a raise as she was seeing a problem and knew the raise wasn't gonna help.

I post on my g/f behalf as she has ASD which makes it hard for her to communicate well, and has had a hard enough life. im just trying to be a good boyfriend and help her out, by sticking up for her. And sharing her and my experiences.

[TaleraRistain]

Well, SB mobs do hit harder. Unfortunately, that hasn't discouraged the tanks from mass pulling still. I do like how mobs will call in more mobs, because that *has* discouraged mass pulling. This makes things a lot more manageable on the healer end and we can even find dps windows to help get things down in these cases.

The problem with CC is that there aren't really adequate CC skills in this game. I was an enchanter back in EverQuest. With my CC skills I could lock down an entire room of 7 or 8 mobs and we could process them like an assembly line. But my skills lasted longer and were much more powerful than something like Repose or Sleep here. As much I would adore another CC class and would play it in an instant, they just haven't made room for that role in this game.

[Waliel]

Then the Warrior rolls need on thori'dal and wins it over the 3 hunters.... the salt was real.

My favourite WoW moment was when my friend had the most DKP and won Ashkandi as a Hunter while I was visiting. He logged off and waited for me to get back home so I could enchant the weapon, because the salt was real.

Anyways, mobs seems to hit somewhat harder already and non-tanks are getting swatted quickly, but double pulls seem totally feasible still in Bardam and Doma from what I've seen.

[Kazrah]

she cried once. It was the last boss to CA, she was draining mp trying to mitigate the tank buster attack that adds bleeding. the healer wasn't removing it, nor did they heal her. The healer gave her a lot of flack after my g.f asked why they let her die, al my gf did was refuse a raise as she was seeing a problem and knew the raise wasn't gonna help.

I post on my g/f behalf as she has ASD which makes it hard for her to communicate well, and has had a hard enough life. im just trying to be a good boyfriend and help her out, by sticking up for her. And sharing her and my experiences.

As someone who has pretty much been on all sides of this scenario, I feel like this argument needs to be amplified to express why I think the OP is either trolling or utterly clueless in regard to tanking perspective, regardless of whether or not they have a tank at 70.

Leveling a tank from 60 to 70, I could definitely feel that trash mobs were hitting considerably harder compared to all content prior to Stormblood no matter how geared I was. I figured "oh, it's a new expansion, we're definitely not going to be able to faceroll it like past content", but that seemed to be more accurate than I originally expected. I always had dps trying to goad me into pulling more mobs, and whenever I told them to get lost, they'd go off and pull more mobs only for the group to wipe because it was more damage than the healer wasn't used to, only made worse by the fact that what cooldowns I had seemed to have almost no effect with how hard mobs hit for. Between how hard mobs hit, how horrible enmity generation was at that time and dps and healers completely unadapted to the realization that content can't be sped through like before, tanking just wasn't fun anymore. Once I hit 70 on my Paladin and got through the story, I left it for Red Mage and never touched it until they FINALLY tweaked enmity generation with the 4.01 changes.

Leveling a healer, I've already come to the understanding that I'm not going to be doing any damage if a tank pulls more than one group, and I know it's usually either because they're dps players who think they can tank or tank players that dps players have never allowed the right to caution or patience. The only positive is that I can tell who the fault lies on from a wipe, and I have no problem being honest about whether I just wasn't paying attention or I was bone dry on MP because I couldn't do anything but spam bigger heals on a tank that pulled way more than they could handle. It's also given me a solid reminder that pulling single groups and telling antsy dps players to shove it makes dungeon runs faster and infinitely smoother than chain-pulling packs like an idiot.

For your girlfriend, all I could suggest is having her keep calm, pull single packs, use maybe one cooldown at a time to help to the healer, and tell her to develop a nice case of apathy toward what anyone else in the group thinks. If she dies or the group wipes, unless she missed a mob or something, the weak link should then be at least a bit more obvious to everyone in the group regardless of what that healer says.

As for you, if you're not comfortable with healing, I would honestly suggest giving Red Mage a try. Unlike MND-based Physick spell from a Summoner, Vercure is INT-based, meaning it's considerably strong coming from a non-healer. That, combined with its own raising spell, should give you that extra support to help her tanking (and maybe more leverage against any healer you might be having problems with).

[Eyvhokan]

G
Sap: Long-duration stun that rogues could use. You'd have the rogue go into Stealth mode before pulling and then sap one of the mobs to remove them from the fight for a good while.

I remember from vanilla, that it always took you out of stealth after using it (so the tank had to pull immediately, and you often needed to use the 5m cooldown aggro dump as the tank couldn't cleave in case of hitting the sapped mob), and had a 10% fail chance anyway. You could get rid of the stealth dropping part by speccing into the subtlety tree, which was the worst in terms of pve damage.

[Annah]

as a healer I can attest to the fact that the SB dungeon trash does hit harder. Trust me on that one. It's not very hard to heal through but yeah they definitively hit harder.

I've seen a warrior go from 55,000 hitpoints to 22,000 hitpoints in 1/4 of a second. There are cleaves everywhere

[Paladinleeds]

I must say, I haven't noticed much difference myself, but maybe that's because I'm too focused on making sure the enemies are beating 10 pounds of Roegadyn flesh outta me instead of the squishy healers or DPS... I guess if I'd mained healer I'd understand better.

I post on my g/f behalf as she has ASD which makes it hard for her to communicate well, and has had a hard enough life. im just trying to be a good boyfriend and help her out, by sticking up for her. And sharing her and my experiences.

I know we're veering way off-topic here, but as a fellow person with autism, I think it's worth her knowing it's not that bad. Communication can be difficult (lord knows I've screwed up plenty times, even on these forums), but if there's points she'd like to get across it's definitely worth her trying to get her foot in the door and posting herself. I know you mean well though, so I apologise if I come off nasty. I just think it's worth her pushing beyond her comfort zome a bit.

[AlexSag]

I think Yoshi P discussed harder 4 man content at one of the live events a few weeks ago. Personally, I think roulette content needs to be on the more casual side because people generally do it to farm tombs or items, but I would love more difficult dungeons if the rewards were there.