LOLSE, We're not wearing 270 STR to hold hate, c'mon now...

[Arkenne]

Their design

At this rate it wouldn't surprise me if they leave it like this and Tanks are stuck with i270 accessories until 6.0 when they implement Materia VIII with +100 STR

[Gravton]

This change is dumb. On pld, in a dungeon, those for the change are saying it's ok for me to do nothing? SO > Flash > SoS > Flash > use a CD > wait 10 sec > Flash. That's on trash and bosses. There is literally no incentive to dps because my dps doesn't matter anyway. Tank gear is now for ilvl and glamour.

[Klongol]

Why is it that proper tanking isn't a reward enough?

I've seen tanks wipe raids in LakEx and SusyEx because they failed at mechanics. They failed to tank swap or perhaps turned a cleave on the raid. It seems most tanks on this forum don't attribute this activity as helping, when they should. A Tank's (major) contribution is the flawless execution of the bosses mechanics and damage as to save the raid from being one shot by the boss and maximize the raid's damage against the boss.

Yes, we definitely need to do SOME damage, but the 100% focus on dps is truly infuriating to me. We can't ALL be big member DPS. This game is a holy trinity MMO. We, the tanks, are there to soak damage, position mobs/bosses, ensure the raid or group stays safe, and throw in some damage.

The problem is, and has been, an attitude problem with the PLAYERS. The changes to accessories is an attempt to force a change in that attitude. Either change your thoughts, or change your class.

Your choice.

[Falar]

Why is it that proper tanking isn't a reward enough?

I've seen tanks wipe raids in LakEx and SusyEx because they failed at mechanics. They failed to tank swap or perhaps turned a cleave on the raid. It seems most tanks on this forum don't attribute this activity as helping, when they should. A Tank's (major) contribution is the flawless execution of the bosses mechanics and damage as to save the raid from being one shot by the boss and maximize the raid's damage against the boss.Yes, we definitely need to do SOME damage, but the 100% focus on dps is truly infuriating to me. We can't ALL be big member DPS. This game is a holy trinity MMO. We, the tanks, are there to soak damage, position mobs/bosses, ensure the raid or group stays safe, and throw in some damage.

The problem is, and has been, an attitude problem with the PLAYERS. The changes to accessories is an attempt to force a change in that attitude. Either change your thoughts, or change your class.

Your choice.

You are describing the bare minimum, that's why.

All those things are required to play tank. If you can't do them, you can't tank. Those are the bare minimum requirements to play the role.

What separates the great tanks from the marginal ones is how much DPS they add to the group while accomplishing their role. When the goal is to kill the enemy any extra DPS that can be found anywhere is a huge bonus.

[Shinkyo]

We want to feel like our attacks get progressively stronger with higher levels of gear.

That's all there is to it...
Sure it doesn't feel good to do less damage than 6-8 months ago but if the tank dps nerf was really consistent across the board, there wouldn't be an issue since everybody would be playing with the same handicap.
The fact that the i270 STR accessories are still available to tanks is a huge oversight because not everyone can afford passing on 25% HP for 20-25% dmg increase, increasing the gap between players.

Second point is the gear progression as your mentioned... whether upgraded through tomestone grinding or raid drops, all gear upgrade should feel like a reward and help you perform better in content. Getting a Savage accessories lets say after 5 weeks of clears to get a 300 HP boost and marginal dps increase (hello tenacity) just feels bad... whereas any dps or healer will feel happy getting an upgrade.


having 270 STR accessories > 320 pentamelded VIT > 340 VIT from savage is just wrong...

[Klongol]

You are describing the bare minimum, that's why.

That is an attitude that you, and seemingly others, are imposing on yourselves. It's NOT the bare minimum. YOU feel like SE's attempts to control tank DPS is negatively impacting the job. I'm here to tell you that your attitude is the problem, not SE.

Hell, I'm not even knocking trying to increase your damage as a tank. I used to do it in WoW Legion all the time. The bottom line, however, was that I wasn't that worried about dps to succeed. I wasn't SUPPOSED to. The DPS had to do their job (big numbahs), and any short-fallings thereof was for THEM to correct, not me. I contributed by healing myself for more, by mitigating damage better as to bring FEWER healers to a raid and more DPS, by following mechanics perfectly, and by adding my admittedly small dps numbers. (in WoW it's not uncommon to have DPS at 1/2 to 1/3 of the worst dps in your raid.)

In FFXIV people like yourself have taken the DPS optimization ideal to the ultimate extreme, and it's a really ugly look. SE's choices are clearly trying to steer you away from this mindset... yet tanks resist like a child throwing a temper tantrum in the mall. Mom (SE) will wait till they are done, I'm sure.

Either it's time to accept the changing times of what SE wants, or change jobs. It's that simple.

[Gravton]

I guess the question is, how hard do you find tanking? Is moving a boss really that difficult? Or using a cd when you see a cast bar? Following a mechanic? How does a player measure personal progress as a tank? Just hp pool? That's dull. But if these forums and PF are any indication, it looks like people are following your advice.

[Falar]

That is an attitude that you, and seemingly others, are imposing on yourselves. It's NOT the bare minimum. YOU feel like SE's attempts to control tank DPS is negatively impacting the job. I'm here to tell you that your attitude is the problem, not SE.Hell, I'm not even knocking trying to increase your damage as a tank. I used to do it in WoW Legion all the time. The bottom line, however, was that I wasn't that worried about dps to succeed. I wasn't SUPPOSED to. The DPS had to do their job (big numbahs), and any short-fallings thereof was for THEM to correct, not me. I contributed by healing myself for more, by mitigating damage better as to bring FEWER healers to a raid and more DPS, by following mechanics perfectly, and by adding my admittedly small dps numbers. (in WoW it's not uncommon to have DPS at 1/2 to 1/3 of the worst dps in your raid.)

In FFXIV people like yourself have taken the DPS optimization ideal to the ultimate extreme, and it's a really ugly look. SE's choices are clearly trying to steer you away from this mindset... yet tanks resist like a child throwing a temper tantrum in the mall. Mom (SE) will wait till they are done, I'm sure.

Either it's time to accept the changing times of what SE wants, or change jobs. It's that simple.

Spoken like a true DPS. So SE wants us to tone down our gameplay a few notches to "casual" and you want us to oblige? No thanks.



Any dummy can get out of the AoEs and pop a CD when a cast bar appears.

[Fyce]

Sorry the amount of hp you have doesn't actually make you harder or easier to heal. That's why vit accessories are useless. They literally do nothing for you. Hp has always been (and always will be) like how accuracy was. You only need "enough" and anything more than that is completely useless.

The less HP you have, the more mitigation you need to survive (busters in particular).
The more HP you have, the less migitation you need to survive.

Mitigation is not only a Tank's job. It's also the job of the Healers, and DPS as well (Feint, Troubadour, Nature's Minne, Palisade, Apocatastasis, Addle...).
So, saying that the amount of HP a Tank has doesn't impact the healing difficulty is technically correct, but it drastically impact the amount of mitigation you need. It means that you may need a defensive cooldown, plus healer's shield, plus something else (from a DPS, or Reprisal, or Intervenstion from the OT, whatever) to survive a Tank buster with STR accessories, while a Tank wearing VIT accessories may only need a defensive cooldown.

Not only HP helps keeping more cooldowns available (and thus, ease cooldown management, including stance switching) but reduce the amount of stress from other party members who might have to never fail something in order for you to survive.

HP also impact these (they aren't part of my main point, but I though it was a good idea to add them):
- Benediction. With the change to 3mn cooldown, the total amount of HP healed throughout a fight drastically change from STR to VIT acc.
- Divine Benison. Again, the more HP, the safer you are, Benison might be good enough for you to survive without a N.Aspected Benefic, while wearing STR acc might not.
- Excogitation's trigger. This skill is debated on SCH's topics, but anyway, some SCH might not want to see their Excogitation being triggered accidentaly because you took an unespected critical auto-attack. Quite anecdotal though, I'll give you that.

I'm not saying that people should go all in for HP, or that HP is better than STR... I'm just saying that HP is definitly not like accuracy and heavily impact the mitigation process.

[Klongol]

This game isn't that hard at all. Tanking leading up to end game content is extremely easy. After that, I feel extreme tanking and beyond is fun and rewarding. I personally like doing Expert Roulette and Ex trials atm. Back in 3.0 I loved the 24 man raids and a good amount of the 8 man content... but that leads to my point:

I do think that they could do more to make the act of tanking more engaging. This can be accomplished a few ways, but mainly (IMO) they need to make things actually dangerous to our survival more often, so that the act of tanking itself is it's own measure of advancement. Lack of danger leads to wondering what our mitigation is even for. A 6k attack mitigated to 5k means little to nothing when you have 40k HP and the healer can top you off with one spell which costs nearly 0% of their MP.

I don't know if SE ever plans to do anything like this, or perhaps they feel the end game content they make is enough... but it's pretty clear to see now, with 2 expansions released, that they intend to cater to a more casual player base and in doing so are going to make content mostly accessible to them. Asking for more regular challenging content is a hot item as it can affect SE's bottom line by excluding people from content due to difficulty