PvP Rewards Now Tied to Win/Loss: Will There Be Endemic Cheating?

[Dizhonor]

IF anything (as I've learned from dozens of other mmo's) this will just enable people to lose faster to maximize exp grinding, it WILL NOT make them change their gameplay. They're terrible for a reason, and it ain't because of lack of effort.

That's doesn't change my point. Winners get more. Losers get less. That's the nature of competition. Don't like it? Complain to Webster's.

[Deltaspirit]

That's doesn't change my point. Winners get more. Losers get less. That's the nature of competition. Don't like it? Complain to Webster's.

I'm not complaining at all, I've been a fairly high level pvper in many a game, and though I'm new to ffxiv I can tell that a) frontlines isn't "competitive" and b) the reason i quoted you and the previous person wasn't about should there be a higher reward for the winners over losers (I'm all for this in fact) but rather to debunk the debate that this would force people to become better//play the mechanics of this pvp game mode.

[Dizhonor]

I'm not complaining at all, I've been a fairly high level pvper in many a game, and though I'm new to ffxiv I can tell that a) frontlines isn't "competitive" and b) the reason i quoted you and the previous person wasn't about should there be a higher reward for the winners over losers (I'm all for this in fact) but rather to debunk the debate that this would force people to become better//play the mechanics of this pvp game mode.

If by "force people" you mean everyone, then that would be a false generalization. You're right. It wouldn't "force everyone." But it would provide an incentive for some to pay attention. And some to go back to pve.

[Deltaspirit]

If by "force people" you mean everyone, then that would be a false generalization. You're right. It wouldn't "force everyone." But it would provide an incentive for some to pay attention. And some to go back to pve.

I didn't say everyone. I was using the implication made by you (and others) that the people it was (let's use a different term since, I can see this will become a game of semantics with you) "pushing" to become better//better pay attention to and play the mechanics of the game mode won't be incentivized. Yes some will stop queuing, and that's good, because if they don't want to pvp, it's likely their group doesn't want them there. A small fraction will learn to be better, and the largest portion will be as they are now, if not worse.

[Stanelis]

That's doesn't change my point. Winners get more. Losers get less. That's the nature of competition. Don't like it? Complain to Webster's.

XP is a terrible tiered reward for pvp games, not very motivating.

With this change I can guarantee you it will make the situation worse, if it doesn't flat out kills the pvp queues. eg you ll see the loosing teams going afk in order to speed up the end of the game and you can expect way more toxicity.

That aside, I really do think MMORPG players are masochists who hate having fun. Because we actually had a system in place giving a decent amount of xp and that was fun and drama free, and people had to complain and ask for something toxic.

[YitharV2]

That aside, I really do think MMORPG players are masochists who hate having fun. Because we actually had a system in place giving a decent amount of xp and that was fun and drama free, and people had to complain and ask for something toxic.

[Dizhonor]

That aside, I really do think MMORPG players are masochists who hate having fun. Because we actually had a system in place giving a decent amount of xp and that was fun and drama free, and people had to complain and ask for something toxic.

1. Frontline wasn't "drama free." (Unless you were ignoring chat?)
2. If "having fun" means "free chicken dinner" to you, then maybe a "game" isn't for you? The very nature of a game is COMPETITION. And in a competition, there are TIERED rewards (winners get more than losers).

Just curious: Are you carried through dungeons all the time? And do you complain when you are vote kicked for being carried? Because (after all) you were just "having fun"?

Not trying to be mean. I'm honestly perplexed at your logic and trying to appeal to some common intuitions.

[Tharia]

1. Frontline wasn't "drama free." (Unless you were ignoring chat?)
2. If "having fun" means "free chicken dinner" to you, then maybe a "game" isn't for you? The very nature of a game is COMPETITION. And in a competition, there are TIERED rewards (winners get more than losers).

Just curious: Are you carried through dungeons all the time? And do you complain when you are vote kicked for being carried? Because (after all) you were just "having fun"?

Not trying to be mean. I'm honestly perplexed at your logic and trying to appeal to some common intuitions.

Welll it is certainly no fun to actually wait 30 - 40 Minutes to do anything. Anyway I hope you will enjoy that fun soon. At least you will have a lot of time to think about this soon.

[Fawkes]

And in a competition, there are TIERED rewards (winners get more than losers).

That's not true. Some competitions reward everyone equally and some reward no one. It depends on the competition.

[NefarioCall]

Just curious: Are you carried through dungeons all the time? And do you complain when you are vote kicked for being carried? Because (after all) you were just "having fun"?

I can't speak for everyone else, though most of the time i am very happy with my abilities as a healer. There's the odd bad run or gaff, but i get a real thrill out of the feeling of pulling off intense plays to carry a team through a path of certain death.

IMO the issue at hand is that the 'game' more or less forces you to play in a party to proceed... which i find ironic since that's exactly how FFXI was and this game wanted to be different. The difference is that in FFXI, most often that level grind was a slow, methodical process with breaks for group healing and strategy among other things. In FFXIV, it's a constant faceroll of running down XIII-esque corridors and spamming AoE until your fingers fall off with no real viable methods to do so in a less pressure can environment. Hunts maybe? But oh wait those are daily capped. Fates? Sort of but that generally includes bashing your head up against the wall of either, this fate recently got downed by a random group and you can't possibly solo it alone, or it still just turns into 10 minutes of mashing the "Stone" button on your hotbar for exp.

I often think back fondly on the old 1.x series Black Shroud and wonder how much open world content with NM's and farming drops for pops or other creative things could exist if this game had an endgame open world zone... i don't think it has ever had that.

FFXIV is great fun. The content is fun. It's just not fun to be forced to do pressure can passageways 100 times because it's the only way to level up. There needs to be ways to do so with a little less full throttle momentum. Right now, PvP exists as the best option in game for that, followed closely by PotD, and neither is really anywhere near ideal.

God i hope Eureka is the first step towards a real solution...