Why PLD is not balanced.

[Atreides]

Rampart, Convalescence, Provoke, and Awareness. Arguably Interject, since PLD's no longer have a silence attached to Spirits Within. In other words, PLD supplied half of the tank role abilities...

And they still have access to them with their full benifit. The other skills got removed, toned down and added to the role skills, they have no synergie nothing they are just a shade of the skills they once were.
Right now PLD is the only tank that can relyably stun without taking a role skill for it. D:

[Bourne_Endeavor]

And they still have access to them with their full benifit. The other skills got removed, toned down and added to the role skills, they have no synergie nothing they are just a shade of the skills they once were.
Right now PLD is the only tank that can relyably stun without taking a role skill for it. D:

Furthermore, it's a bit disingenuous to list any of those abilities, really. They were always available to all three tanks. It wasn't as those Paladin gave useful cross skills in the transition either. Revive could only be used outside combat and you never wanted a Paladin using Stoneskin or Protect. So when it comes down to it, they lost nothing to hinder their abilities whereas Dark Knight and Warrior did.

[Nixxe]

And they still have access to them with their full benifit. The other skills got removed, toned down and added to the role skills, they have no synergie nothing they are just a shade of the skills they once were.
Right now PLD is the only tank that can relyably stun without taking a role skill for it. D:

That's pretty disingenuous. I lost my cross class abilities and have to give up the new role abilities to get back abilities I already had. You guys are just super salty because oh god how dare PLDs be meta.

Furthermore, it's a bit disingenuous to list any of those abilities, really. They were always available to all three tanks. It wasn't as those Paladin gave useful cross skills in the transition either. Revive could only be used outside combat and you never wanted a Paladin using Stoneskin or Protect. So when it comes down to it, they lost nothing to hinder their abilities whereas Dark Knight and Warrior did.

I lost access to Bloodbath, Foresight, and Mercy Stroke, so...

[Falar]

That's pretty disingenuous. I lost my cross class abilities and have to give up the new role abilities to get back abilities I already had. You guys are just super salty because oh god how dare PLDs be meta.


I lost access to Bloodbath, Foresight, and Mercy Stroke, so...

So did the other tanks.

TO be fair, PLD had a trait to make convalescence better.

But when I compared my PLD hotbars to DRK hotbars at L60 the difference could be seen there--on PLD, 10% convalescence was lost and that was really it. If we want to count foresight, mercy stroke, and bloodbath well all tanks lost those.

My PLD still has Rampart, Provoke, Convalescence, etc. Why would we count Rampart anyway since DRK lost Shadowskin?

Again, I assumed PLD was going to get better in this expansion and hoped for it. It needed a spammable AoE for sure, otherwise dungeons really sucked.

[Nixxe]

So did the other tanks.

TO be fair, PLD had a trait to make convalescence better.

But when I compared my PLD hotbars to DRK hotbars at L60 the difference could be seen there--on PLD, 10% convalescence was lost and that was really it. If we want to count foresight, mercy stroke, and bloodbath well all tanks lost those.

My PLD still has Rampart, Provoke, Convalescence, etc. Why would we count Rampart anyway since DRK lost Shadowskin?

Again, I assumed PLD was going to get better in this expansion and hoped for it. It needed a spammable AoE for sure, otherwise dungeons really sucked.

I'm well aware other tanks lost stuff too. You asked what PLD lost. I told you. Other people tried to pretend that they didn't really lose them, which is a total crock.

Why wouldn't you count Rampart just because another tank class loss a functionally similar ability? That doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on whether or not PLD lost it.

You guys are being silly.

[Falar]

I'm well aware other tanks lost stuff too. You asked what PLD lost. I told you. Other people tried to pretend that they didn't really lose them, which is a total crock.

Why wouldn't you count Rampart just because another tank class loss a functionally similar ability? That doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on whether or not PLD lost it.

You guys are being silly.

The point is, the things PLD lost, all tanks lost.

The abilities that went to role abilities are all equippable still and unchanged (except convalescence).

DRK lost 3 core abilities that were tied together---DD, Reprisal, Low Blow. How would you like it if PLD lost goring blade, shield swipe, shield bash, and Sheltron this expansion?

[Nixxe]

The point is, the things PLD lost, all tanks lost.

The abilities that went to role abilities are all equippable still and unchanged (except convalescence).

DRK lost 3 core abilities that were tied together---DD, Reprisal, Low Blow. How would you like it if PLD lost goring blade, shield swipe, shield bash, and Sheltron this expansion?

That's just plain wrong. Convalescence was a cross-class ability for you before. It still is. It was a baseline ability for me, and a buffed one at that. I now have to give up a role slot to get it back, instead of actually acquiring an additional ability. That is a loss for paladin and only paladin, while the status quo is preserved for the other two classes, which have only ever had it through cross-class. The same goes for Provoke, Awareness, Interjection, and Rampart (with respect to Warrior only). If I want those things back, I can't use any other cross-class ability. DRK's losses were Shadow Skin, Low Blow, Reprisal, and Dark Dance, not the PLD borrowed abilities. The PLD borrowed abilities are all losses for PLD at this point, which has to spend a role slot on them just to almost get back to where it started. It's cool if you guys don't like the changes to your classes or think there need to be buffs or whatever, but trying to distort the situation isn't helpful.

[Falar]

That's just plain wrong. Convalescence was a cross-class ability for you before. It still is. It was a baseline ability for me, and a buffed one at that. I now have to give up a role slot to get it back, instead of actually acquiring an additional ability. That is a loss for paladin and only paladin, while the status quo is preserved for the other two classes, which have only ever had it through cross-class. The same goes for Provoke, Awareness, Interjection, and Rampart (with respect to f you guys don't like the changes to your classes or think there need to be buffs or whatever, but trying to distort the situation isn't helpful.

I already acknowledged the 10% convalescence loss. You can't get that back.

However, the 3 skills we lost to the role skills we can't get back. DD, Reprisal, Low Blow. They have the same names but they are not the old skills.

[Shurrikhan]

And they still have access to them with their full benefit.

Technically, no.

Convalescence and Awareness both previously had traits improving their performance on Gladiator/Paladin.

[Tila]

Because that was never in contention until people started pretending PLD lost nothing. PLD did lose stuff, the same as every other tank did. Whining that your loss is somehow lossier is an asinine attempt at trying to pretend you somehow got screwed while PLD was left untouched. This isn't difficult. Stop making it so.

What did Paladin lose? Because I'm not seeing it having lost anything. Yes, some skills became cross class, but that wasnt a lose for them. Especcially when you consider that PLD's old options for cross class were a joke. At most they lost Bloodbath.

Technically, no.

Convalescence and Awareness both previously had traits improving their performance on Gladiator/Paladin.

The cross class ver of these skills are the equivalent of the old traited one.