[Spoilers] Lakshmi and Tempering

[Alleo]

We do lots of favors for lots of people. You tend to be liked when that's t he case.

I believe so too. Also we still have people that dislike us, so if we can temper those around us (without us noticing it) what would stop us from tempering everyone thus having no single person against us. (Other than echo users) In the end someone that is doing so much good for the people will become beloved, even if they might not be nice every single time.

But I do find the sudden ability to shield people from tempering a bit too much. This was nowhere mentioned in the story thus how does our character know how to do this? And if this is possible couldnt Urianger (the plot item creator) not create something that brings out a shield thus making it possible for others to fight primals? I mean in a world where they can suck out someones aether to give someone else the fake echo, something like that should be possible?

I wonder how much Elidibus' notion in 2.1 is tied into this - that if we knew the true power of the Echo, there would be no disagreement with the ascians. Is Elidibus powerful enough to psuedo-temper those around him?

Do we need to re-examine all the Echo lore in light of 4.0?

You know I sometimes want to ask Elidibus why he never told us the truth (early on when we still did not have that deep ties with the scions) if that would change our mind? Maybe the truth is that mastering the echo could make you into something like the Ascian thus immortal and for a lot of people this might be enough to stand at their side. (And if you are immortal you would probably survive the rejoining too so no reason to against it, right? At least in their view) Also if he can temper people why was Thordan not tempered, or why is the leader of Garlemald still not tempered?

I am fine if there are some things that we find out to be wrong, but I would find it really bad story telling to just change a lot of how the echo works. Because if that happens, how can we ever trust any information in the story which would leave a bad feeling (imo).

[Cilia]

... I do find the sudden ability to shield people from tempering a bit too much. This was nowhere mentioned in the story thus how does our character know how to do this? And if this is possible couldnt Urianger (the plot item creator) not create something that brings out a shield thus making it possible for others to fight primals? I mean in a world where they can suck out someones aether to give someone else the fake echo, something like that should be possible?

If you'll remember waaaaay back, when we first fought Ifrit he tried to temper us, and much like with Lakshmi the Echo created a kind of "dead zone" behind us where his flames didn't reach. It takes a good memory, but our ability to shield others from tempering isn't without precedent.

Could Urianger make a device to counteract tempering? Possibly... if he understood the science behind it. What made it possible to disrupt Fordola's Resonant Echo was that he understood the principles that made it work - subconscious attunement to minute fluctuations in aether - and so was able to counteract it by making a disruptive blast to that sense (akin to a bright flash of light to blind someone, or a loud noise to deafen and distract them). We still don't know how tempering works, exactly, and without that it can't be countered.

[PArcher]

But I do find the sudden ability to shield people from tempering a bit too much. This was nowhere mentioned in the story thus how does our character know how to do this?

Reasoning could be something as simple as seeing your friends about to be tempered, and just trying *something* and hoping it works. You've conjured a "shield of light" a few times in the MSQ (speaking to Middy the first time comes to mind, and as Cila said Ifrit's failed tempering), so its not something completely new

Sometimes all it takes is just a strong desire and throwing caution to the wind.

[Vulcwen]

Reasoning could be something as simple as seeing your friends about to be tempered, and just trying *something* and hoping it works. You've conjured a "shield of light" a few times in the MSQ (speaking to Middy the first time comes to mind, and as Cila said Ifrit's failed tempering), so its not something completely new

Sometimes all it takes is just a strong desire and throwing caution to the wind.

Thing is, it looked like a pretty confident move there, at least to me.
Besides that, we also have Vril as mechanic, which is also pretty interesting.

Or maybe I'm just hoping for indications that the WoL is actually learning to control the Echo.

[Alleo]

Thing is, it looked like a pretty confident move there, at least to me.
Besides that, we also have Vril as mechanic, which is also pretty interesting.

Or maybe I'm just hoping for indications that the WoL is actually learning to control the Echo.

Yeah this is my problem with the scene. It looks just like the WoL knew how to do it. Like they did it before. And even if you had a zone behind you that was not touched by Ifrit flames, it was not done by the will of the WoL themselves. So it would have been nice if they either showed a scene before that where we are talking about the possibilyt of using it like that. Or showing the WoL just jumping between it and hoping it would protect the people and looking surprised after it works. My WoL just standing there and doing this stuff without looking surprised at all made me feel disconnected to her like "did you learn that while I was offline?"

And yes I really hope that after the fight with Zenos, the WoL is trying to learn more about the Echo.

[Daralii]

Yeah this is my problem with the scene. It looks just like the WoL knew how to do it. Like they did it before. And even if you had a zone behind you that was not touched by Ifrit flames, it was not done by the will of the WoL themselves. So it would have been nice if they either showed a scene before that where we are talking about the possibilyt of using it like that. Or showing the WoL just jumping between it and hoping it would protect the people and looking surprised after it works. My WoL just standing there and doing this stuff without looking surprised at all made me feel disconnected to her like "did you learn that while I was offline?"

And yes I really hope that after the fight with Zenos, the WoL is trying to learn more about the Echo.

I imagine Alphinaud and Urianger will prompt us to actively study the Echo, because they suspect that Garlemald has the research data and will start producing their own Resonant.

[Theodric]

I'd prefer to see the Echo serve as a useful but dangerous and mysterious plot element that isn't necessarily always a good thing rather than as a plot device that allows the Warrior of Light to overcome everything thrown his way. Having the antagonists 'catch up' to the Warrior of Light is redundant if they're just going to be rendered pointless after a few scenes because the Warrior of Light and his allies somehow manage to overcome all the odds stacked against them anyway.

Imagine if one of the Echo visions hit at a crucial point, showing a vision of the past but also taking the Warrior of Light out of the fight temporarily with the consequence being the death of one his key allies? As it stands, there aren't a great many lasting, legitimate downsides to the Warrior of Light's powers and that risks making things dull.

[Fenral]

I think we're past that? I mean, the Echo's Japanese name is quite literally "the power to overcome." It does exactly what it's meant to. We already had Krile captured because Arenvald got hit with a vision, and that's forgetting that Hydaelyn pretty much put a gun into Minfilia's hands for her to shoot herself with.

[Cilia]

We also would have been easy pickings for that Garlean spy through whose memories we viewed Yotsuyu's past, had Alisae not been there to lend us an assist. Just because nobody died doesn't mean it wasn't an unfortunate situation.

Speaking of the Echo, though... just out of curiosity, what is the Resonant Echo called in the Japanese version? Anyone know?

[Daralii]

Something of potential interest I noticed with Fordola's Resonant eye is that it has two sets of twelve marks in rings around the pupil. It's probably just a coincidence, but I wonder if whatever was extracted from Krile was related to the Twelve.