Tanks are fine (show your support so they don't change them)

[Kinkoz]

/sigh You control the pet which makes you a tank. You may not think it, but it does make you one because you have complete control of it.

I know you said you were done, but your rebuttal begs the question: Does that make Summoner a Tank, then?

[Ferrasper]

I know you said you were done, but your rebuttal begs the question: Does that make Summoner a Tank, then?

If they gave more abilities and controls to the titan Egi allowing the SMN to have more agro skills with it, then I would say yes it would qualify as a tank.

[Kinkoz]

If they gave more abilities and controls to the titan Egi allowing the SMN to have more agro skills with it, then I would say yes it would qualify as a tank.

But, see, you had to tack on an additional qualifier to make your case, which means that, as the Job currently stands, Summoner is not a Tank. Nor would it likely be made such even with additions to the abilities of Titan-Egi, but that's just my speculation based on the functions of its other combat pets.

I mean, Monk has a defensive stance and CAN certainly tank for a short time in a party under very extreme circumstances, but that doesn't necessarily qualify it to fill a dedicated Tank role in a party. Not with the way roles currently work in game.

If they took away PLDs ability to move at all during combat, removed all but savage blade, flash, and invincible, but instead gave u a pet that did DPS levels of damage, would you be invited to groups as a tank or a DPS?
My answer depends on your answer.

You're throwing out an awfully abstract and unlikely example there, but Paladin would probably be made a DPS instead of a Tank if that were the case.

Again, I feel like you're both overlooking the fact that this game adheres strictly to the Trinity, but it's not my intent to argue the necessity, benefits, and detriments of that role Trinity structuring. That can be saved for another discussion entirely as I have no vested interest in that particular matter.

[Ferrasper]

But, see, you had to tack on an additional qualifier to make your case, which means that, as the Job currently stands, Summoner is not a Tank. Nor would it likely be made such even with additions to the abilities of Titan-Egi, but that's just my speculation based on the functions of its other combat pets.

I mean, Monk has a defensive stance and CAN certainly tank for a short time in a party under very extreme circumstances, but that doesn't necessarily qualify it to fill a dedicated Tank role in a party. Not with the way roles currently work in game.

I never said SMN was a tank though. That was someone else. Could they become one with added stuff? Sure, but I wouldn't recommend it. I think a puppetmaster would be a better tank then SMN. I was just answering you if they could become one.

[Kinkoz]

I never said SMN was a tank though. That was someone else. Could they become one with added stuff? Sure, but I wouldn't recommend it. I think a puppetmaster would be a better tank then SMN. I was just answering you if they could become one.

I never said you said that, either. Neither did I ask if they could become one, just whether or not they were, or could be considered, a Tank based on the fact that they have access to a tanking combat pet.

You're not disproving his point. He thinks with the additions it could tank, and I say with some modifications it could tank, but to be balanced, the SMN would then have to deal considerably less dmg, so as not to be a DPS.
(Of course we could amp up dps, titan, and even heals, and make a SMN all roles in one, but thats not the argument being presented.)

I think you're missing the point of all of this, especially since you've yet to address my statement regarding the strict trinity structuring of roles. It can't be that way because the game isn't designed in such a fashion, unlike games that have had "talent trees" and multiple ways to build a single class for different roles, like WoW.

And by your logic, a PLD, WAR, and DRK arent tanks, because they need their gear to survive tank busters. Not their own natural abilities, which arent their own, but something else, because aether that makes egi's is no different than the aether thats used to make shield oath, grit, etc.

I'm... Failing to see how you came to that conclusion without assuming a great number of things that I neither said nor implied. You sound like you're reaching at this point.

EDIT: And, based upon your current reply, you're DEFINITELY reaching for straws. You're completely misinterpreting not only my point about the trinity structure being a question instead of a flat, matter-of-fact statement, but pretty much everything else about what I'm saying.

If a Job's designed and programmed to be a DPS, then they're going to be a DPS, end of story. Only way this would change is if the dev team made queuing such where you COULD queue as a Tank on Summoner, just to give an example, provided that your Summoner was built around enabling Titan-Egi to Tank effectively while you, yourself, are providing DPS.

I DID also say that if your pet is tanking, then you're not the Tank, which is true. I didn't want to argue a single thing, I am arguing that if you're not the one directly managing and directing all the aggro to yourself, then you, on a fundamental level, are not the Tank of the party. You are a DPS or support role bringing along an AI-controlled companion that handles the tanking for your party.

I honestly have no idea why or how you're interpreting this from a lore standpoint rather than a functional, mechanical standpoint, which is the angle in which I've been arguing this whole entire time.

Every single time you reply, Claire, you keep going further and further off-base with your counterarguments as well as your assumptions that, quite frankly, it's starting to become incredibly disconcerting.

[Claire_Pendragon]

I think you're missing the point of all of this, especially since you've yet to address my statement regarding the strict trinity structuring of roles. It can't be that way because the game isn't designed in such a fashion, unlike games that have had "talent trees" and multiple ways to build a single class for different roles, like WoW.

Only if you intend to have SMN be able to switch between tank and DPS, would your question about the trinity/talents matter.
Im not suggesting SMN be a tank, and DPS. (Much less a Tank)
Im addressing the original poster in which I was explaining how it would be possible to have a ranged tank.
Which if you decided to split away from that, that's your choice, not mine.

I'm... Failing to see how you came to that conclusion without assuming a great number of things that I neither said nor implied. You sound like you're reaching at this point.

You said if a Pet is tanking, then you're not the tank.
You wanted to argue if a job that isnt directly taking the hits, shoudlnt be considered a tank, even if they fill the role perfectly.

The only way this argument has any validation, is if you're not talking about the role in which a player is filling, but the lore behind a job, and nitpicking at details from the in game lore.

So if I press a button,f or my pet to take an action, it is somehow different from pressing a button and my character takes an action.
(Both of which arent actually me.)

So if we're going to nitpick to the degree in which you are wanting to, then I can say that a group going through savage, will fail if their tanks didnt wear armor, and that if the character is unable to tank it w/o outside help, then they cant be considered a tank. (aka, a Ranged Tank, cant ever be considered a tank, if their pet is taking the hits, instead of the controller of the pet.)

The rest of us are talking about game mechanics, and the functions each role needs to accomplish.
If a Pet class was reworked to CD for all Tank busters, Invincible through insta kills, hold hate, usually able to spam AoE hate, single target burst hate, provoke/tank swap, dodge AoEs, position the boss, swap into a higher DPS state when OTing, all while not out performing any other job, then it is possible for a pet class to tank, and if their is a pet class tanking, that player could also be "ranged" in the form of their personal dmg.

[Claire_Pendragon]

I know you said you were done, but your rebuttal begs the question: Does that make Summoner a Tank, then?

If they took away PLDs ability to move at all during combat, removed all but savage blade, flash, and invincible, but instead gave u a pet that did DPS levels of damage, would you be invited to groups as a tank or a DPS?
My answer depends on your answer.

(In case the direction of my post isnt aparrent, I'll also add in; the pet can dodge mechanics and do all of the mechanics just fine, can do limit breaks, cant be easily targetable by healers, w/o losing their focus target on the boss, to see when the boss uses tank busters, the PLD wouldnt be able to use cool downs for every tank buster, the PLD cant hold hate on trash mobs if the DPS are trying even remotely, unless they wait 30-60s before they start attacking, the amount of dmg mitigated is now lower than a tank in DPS stance not using CDs, the PLD cant voke off another tank, to try and do tank swaps. So on, and so forth. Shoudl PLD be able to queue as a Tank, or a DPS?)