Square Enix, Please hear my humble petition about Tanks Balance

[Kaonis]

OH SO NOW People realise PLD has utility?!?

PRE 4.X
Forums: PLD DPS sucks.
me: Yes but it has great utility and-
Forums: NOBODY cares about PLD's utility!

The issue was their utility didn't offset their low DPS. But now their DPS is comparable to a WAR (if not the same) with the added benefit of tons of utility, compared to WAR who lost the only good utility they had.

Its the exact same situation as WHM/AST pre-SB. AST had bad heals, and their utility didn't make up for it. Then they got buffed to have the same healing as a WHM but with added utility (plus balance buff). In which case WHM got kicked to the curb because AST could do everything they could do plus more.

[Kosmos992k]

Not to even mention complexity of play.

Paladin hits max DPS by rotating two buffs and mashing five keys. Warrior has to go through this whole huge flowchart and pray to god that no mechanics happen otherwise it all goes to hell.

For the same damage output.

EDIT: To all these obnoxious PLD players who keep saying that all 3 tanks are fine. I challenge you to go level WAR to 70, play both tanks through a few Expert Roulettes, and then come back and be able to still say that with a straight face.

Hold on a moment. For YEARS people have bashed PLD as being the beginner tank, the simple tank, tanking easy mode, and all manner of insults belittling PLD, but now you're saying that it's unfair because PLD is easier? Make up your minds people, either it's a good thing, or not.

[ovIm]

Hold on a moment. For YEARS people have bashed PLD as being the beginner tank, the simple tank, tanking easy mode, and all manner of insults belittling PLD, but now you're saying that it's unfair because PLD is easier? Make up your minds people, either it's a good thing, or not.

So in your mind the tank with the best damage and the best utility should also be the easiest to play?

[Kosmos992k]

I get that Paladins needed a buff but that's not how balance logic works. "We sucked so now that you're like us in 2.0 it's fair." That's an incredibly selfish way of thinking too.**snip**
Also a lot of the issues are less about Paladins being good, most people are just miffed about that on top of their own job having issues.

**snip**
That doesn't take anything from Paladins but it makes the current tanks happier to play it.

OK, look, we are not even two weeks from the release of StormBlood, you can't give PLD players even two weeks of glory before the complaints start? I mean, OK, I'm being a bit ironic in my posts about this, that's the price of 4 years of crap from Warriors and 2 years of superiority from DRK on top of that. You can't even let us have two weeks before raining on the parade?

I'll go back to the thing I always used to say, and still do say. I don't mind if PLD has the least good damage output as long as it's mitigation king and has great utility. I like to be a survivor, the last cat standing so to speak, and giving PLD utility and survivability are perfectly fine with me, even if we are not stellar in the DPS department. So, I really have no problem with buffing WAR/DRK, but the community can't seem to fathom having tanks that are not equal in every way. So we end up with PLD bringing it's survivability and utility and now having equal damage potential (or slightly better) because of the effort to bring PLD DPS up to WAR/DRK standards.

But, WAR and DRK are far from broken, unlike say Scholar which seems to have had nothing but nerfballs thrown at it.

But, back to the current topic. We're only two weeks from the start of Early Access, it's not been long enough for SE to fully analyze performance and utility of the tanks. Demanding nerfs or boosts now is off base, anything they do at this stage would be a knee-jerk reaction. And we all know how well those have gone in the past.

I'd like to see just what would happen with the tanks if Tenacity was buffed properly. There's potential to apply weightings to Tenacity for each Tank and the effects it has for them to shape things a little too. But it's too early for SE to make major changes.

So in your mind the tank with the best damage and the best utility should also be the easiest to play?

Best damage by how much? If it's less than 1% why describe it as best damage. Why shouldn't it be easiest to play, it was derided as the easy mode tank, so whats the problem?

[SargentToughie]

Snip

To be honest, over the course of the last two weeks, the PLD playerbase has been far, FAR more unbearable in their superiority than WAR ever was.

Most of us WAR players always wanted PLD to be made stronger, to stand equal with us. You get a vocal minority for every 'meta' job that's stronger than the competition, but the reaction from the dedicated PLD playerbase in the face of all this unbalance has been outright appalling.

[Donaria]

I remember when HW launched and war got the ability to stance dance with no penalty going from path to eye with effortless ease, mean while pld had to break combos and pay mana to switch stances, also, drk had to pay mana and use grit on the gcd too. EVERY OPINIIN EVER ON THE FORUMS WHERE WAR IS TOO GOOD. WAR had best defensive cooldowns(still has best cooldown timer rotation) best sustain best dmg output highest HP pool. Now SE made it a challenge for war to do dmg and all you wanna do is cry that your job isn't number1 anymore and that it is now on par with the rest of the tanks.

Where were you OP when pld got shat on for the last 4years?

Prolly clearing coil, and alex on war laughing.

The only thing I thought was stupid war lost was blood bath, i thought war was supposed to be "The Sustain Tank"

[TouchandFeel]

Okay, seriously these threads and responses of "we got shat on in the past so you should be on the receiving end now" and "screw you for getting the love your job needed, nerf now" are ridiculous. This is not some hardcore cutthroat competitive game, it's a game based around cooperation and teamwork. Shadenfreude should have no place here.

We should be all be happy that PLD got the overhaul it much needed and nobody really should have mocked them for getting the short end of the stick previously but should have added their voices to those legitimately asking to be made equal. Just like now we shouldn't be repeating the same thing with WAR and DRK and should be objective and champion the fixing of legitimate imbalances, whether or not it is the class you play.

If I'm MT, I would definitely want my OT to be able to perform their role as well as possible while also helping me out with mine and vice versa if I'm the OT, no matter what job they play. Wanting or being complacent in one job being better or lesser than others is counter-productive to this.

Remember this game is about working as and being the best team you can and a huge part of that is helping others be the best they can be, so it is within the best interest of every player to want all the jobs to perform and be fun and most of all equitably so. This "us vs. them" bs team mentality is just destructive when we are actually all one big team as a whole.

So can we please stop acting like bickering children and instead work together to push for the betterment and equality of all the jobs.

[vigioX-Sun]

I love the way you express the situation, you got my humble support on this.
War is not what a war is suppose to be, they totally forgot the core of the job, taking lot of the fun things about it.
I usually get all my classes at max level but when it comes to play im always a Warrior since 2010, thats the type of tank i like an i have choose it over an over over expansions until 4.0, not only because of the DPS nerf but because the gameplay core of the warrior is been shatter.
i dont wanna play DRK an i dont wanna play PLD i will level them up an thats it they gonna sit there because im none of those jobs...the only class i ever like in the game got really mess up, i refuse to run dungeons with it so i been dedicating time to crafting an gathering instead, praying that SE do a few tweaks to the job that is really need it , War dont feel like a war anymore... they totally ruin the class for me, until then i drop my Axe for the first time in 6 years

[bounddreamer]

I've never made fun of paladins, I defended my paladin co-tank when the meta was DRK/WAR or WAR/WAR, and in exchange for that and my naively hopeful attitude toward 4.0 warrior I'm rewarded with a meta where there's absolutely no point bringing my warrior into Omega, it's DRK or even dual PLD. That's my options.

I'm not happy about it. My group isn't fussed, they're not putting pressure on me. But there's literally no point to bringing my main, the job i love, into a raid where the other two tanks will do so much better and not have the stance switching penalty that WAR does.

So yeah, it hurts. And there's already been a torrent of immediate discrimination against warriors. It's to the point I looked at party finder over the weekend and they were already excluding WAR from EX farms.

[Kosmos992k]

To be honest, over the course of the last two weeks, the PLD playerbase has been far, FAR more unbearable in their superiority than WAR ever was.

Most of us WAR players always wanted PLD to be made stronger, to stand equal with us. You get a vocal minority for every 'meta' job that's stronger than the competition, but the reaction from the dedicated PLD playerbase in the face of all this unbalance has been outright appalling.

No, the paladin playerbase has not been unbearable, and certainly you can't compare two weeks against the last 4 years and complain about te two weeks. "Most of us WAR players", well, I guess you identified your 'side' in this. I honestly don't see how Warriors can have the gall to call Paladin reaction to the changes 'appalling'. I'm not even going to bother to go back over 4 years to cherry pick the unbearable, and appalling arrogance of warriors over Paladins. There's no point in it.

It seems to me, that you expected Paladin players to be thick skinned about the jibes and insults for a long, long time, but you're suprisingly thin skinned yourself about the current situation, a situation where the DPS of all 3 tanks is very close, even if PLD edges out WAR/DRK by a few points. For years Paladin was markedly worse off.

But, that's not even the point here. The real point is that PLD is not grossly more powerful than WAR or DRK. But I love that you're complaining that it's too easy now, when before people were using that as an insult to PLD.

If you read my prior post you know I don't really care if PLD is best for DPS, as I see Paladin as the truly defensive tank, and as far as I am concerned PLD DPS doesn't need to be the strongest. But my personal opinion won't change anything. But, here on the forum, if I want to call out hypocrisy and use irony to make a point, I'll do it. You have no idea how sick and tired I got of the tone in this forum and others where Paladins were looked down on from every conceivable angle. But, now that Paladins have parity and can celebrate that, your reaction is to call Paladins appalling. Yeah...right.

Well, let's see what SE finds in the game telemetry and how they handle that and rebalance things. I can be patient about it. I can't see why you and others can't, it's not like the sky is falling, or your DPS is 10-15% behind the other tanks is it?