Fordola (spoilers)

[Vulcwen]

...

But did Zenos actually give her that order? We only see him say "there is something else I want you to do", and then Fordola claimed it was Zenos that gave the order when she communicated it at Castrum Abania, but what if that was her own idea, or at least her decision. I mean, it was her idea to attack the Reach as well. Her own initiative put her ahead of other commanders in the eyes of Zenos, but she was still not accepted by most Garleans, they still think of her as a savage, not a Garlean citizen, something she officially was. Is that not a reason for revenge and hate? She was finally in a position of power where she could get her revenge, on those that treat her like dirt, and the people she was associated with. Then she might finally get the respect she wanted, even if it was just out of fear.

Knowing that Zenos likes to play with people, I don't see it unlikely that he presented her the choice.

[Gaiussenpai]

I'm surprised there is zero mentions of Gaius's rule and the king of ruin and its just good guys bad guys this expansion. Then again the Garlean superiority complex is understandable due to their past and I could have sworn Ala Mhigans in the past did bully them to unless I mis-remember the gubal library stuff.

[Ronove]

And because of that, they wasted a perfectly good plot. It would have been awesome to confront the old generation that lost friends and home in the war with the new one, who is accepted into Garlemald because they grown into a Garlean "colony" under the rule of Gaius.

The fact that both generation feels oppressed makes Garlmeald just a bunch of cliché villains doing cliché villainous things, to the point of absurdity...why the hell are the young mhigans attacking us ? If we lose, they'll continue with their lives, and if we win...well, they'll continue with their lives, but under the rule of Lyse, who want nothing but peace.

That was actually the one thing I disliked. After 25 years there would undoubtly be younger men and women who were fine with Garleans because that's all they knew. All we saw were people oppressed and scared to do anything because failure after failure. Though, it's not like it would have mattered if we saw those who were fine with the Garleans (excluding those already off the deep-end--Fordola and Yotsuyu) because Lyse would simply act as she always did when faced with people who had given up fighting: convince them that they're wrong (while failing spectacularly to see it from their pov and maybe softening her approach) and that they should in fact fight and the story would just give it to her because she's so inspiring.

In regards to Gauis not caring about your origins, I thought that he was an outlier compared to the rest of the Garleans. I could be wrong though.

[Theodric]

I'm surprised there is zero mentions of Gaius's rule and the king of ruin and its just good guys bad guys this expansion. Then again the Garlean superiority complex is understandable due to their past and I could have sworn Ala Mhigans in the past did bully them to unless I mis-remember the gubal library stuff.

There's a side quest in The Fringes that shows that Gaius spoke out against the development and testing of chemical weapons. That was a nice touch, but it's hidden away. They need to start showing the shades of grey where Garlemald is concerned within the MSQ's.

Much of Gaius' story is locked away in The Praetorium - which is more often than not skipped through and forgotten about these days. Regula's story takes place in The Warring Triad side quests...and then is never referenced again. There's a number of other side quests that deal with the better aspects of Garlemald but they're just that: side quests.

[Reynhart]

In regards to Gauis not caring about your origins, I thought that he was an outlier compared to the rest of the Garleans.

He probably was, but he reigned over Ala Mhigo before Zenos. And the mere idea of Rhitahtyn being betrayed because he was a Roegadyn angered him a lot, so I'm pretty sur his troops wouldn't dare to oppress the Mhigans back then.

As for those why lived all their lives under Garlean control, they wouldn't have given up fightning, they could think that Garlean rule was actually good. Seriously, you can't be an empire for so long if your citizen spend their days trying to rebel.

[Khalithar]

As for those why lived all their lives under Garlean control, they wouldn't have given up fightning, they could think that Garlean rule was actually good. Seriously, you can't be an empire for so long if your citizen spend their days trying to rebel.

There is a side quest in the peaks where you talk to an imperial officer named Baut, I highly recommend doing the chain as it sheds some light on Garlean rule. One of the things you learn is that actual process by which the Garleans rule over their countries actually drastically varies depending on where you go, per this NPC that had been an Imperial Centurion of no small standing for some two decades, to paraphrase, "the means by which the empire rules varies drastically, in some countries the empire essentially leaves things as they are while in other countries the citizens would welcome death with open arms."

So it sounds like a lot of the empire and the places they rule over does have some leaders that either leave the people alone (mostly) or actively take good care of them and in others we see what happened in Ala Mihgo under Zenos. The quest chain is in Ala Gihri (sp?) and again, highly recommend it, it's pretty informative.

[Reynhart]

So it sounds like a lot of the empire and the places they rule over does have some leaders that either leave the people alone (mostly) or actively take good care of them and in others we see what happened in Ala Mihgo under Zenos.

Again, both Gaius and Zenos ruled over Ala Mhigo and Zenos is in charge only since Gaius' death. So, there's no way the Mhigans has been bullied for the whole 25 years like they said...which is what Fordola tries to use as justification for her act.
Doma, maybe, but there, Yotsuyu is even more a walking villain cliché than Zenos himself...

What makes a good villain is precisely that you could have sympathy for him. I don't understand why Yoshi-P made a very important focus to remove that feeling.

[Odstarva]

I feel like some of you might have skipped parts of the main quest and a few side-quests.


At one point, there are ala mhigans who were born under the garlean occupation that try to ambush us - in their eyes, we are the invader.
There is also a side-quest where the locals are urging you to stop the alliance from executing one of the enemy commanders, whom according to them always treated them fairly and found a way to give them their lives back, going out of his way to ensure none of the grunts abused them.



There is plenty of grey, most of it feels obfuscated by the main scenario quest but if you go looking for it it's definitely there.



Furthermore, on an earlier side-quest there is also mention of how Gaius stopped eorzea from being attacked with chemical weapons, act he condemned - the fact zenos didn't pursue the same avenue goes to show that (at least to some extent) they too follow some form of war ethic (but that's just speculation).

[Reynhart]

At one point, there are ala mhigans who were born under the garlean occupation that try to ambush us - in their eyes, we are the invader.

No, they don't attack us because we're "invaders", they attack us because they're convinced we will lose against the empire, and that they'll suffer even more as an aftermath, so they try to stop us before.

There is also a side-quest where the locals are urging you to stop the alliance from executing one of the enemy commanders, whom according to them always treated them fairly and found a way to give them their lives back, going out of his way to ensure none of the grunts abused them.

Oh yeah, sure. Not all Garleans are douchebags. But the most important ones (Basically, the ones with actual voices) are jerks.

Furthermore, on an earlier side-quest there is also mention of how Gaius stopped eorzea from being attacked with chemical weapons, act he condemned - the fact zenos didn't pursue the same avenue goes to show that (at least to some extent) they too follow some form of war ethic (but that's just speculation).

I don't think so. Zenos just likes to fight. Killing masses with chemicals just isn't interesting to him. This is not ethic, this is just a whim.

Frankly, compared to Gaius and Regula, Zenos is just a really bland villain.

[Alleo]

Actually...it wasn't that simple...before Stormblood.


Back in 1.0 and up to 2.0, our main antagonist was Gaius (With crazy Nael from 1.18 to 1.23). He claimed that he launched the conquest on Eorzea to save the World, and, in a twisted sense, he was right. Summoning primals or other deities actually hurt the planet. So, Garlemald destroyed Ala Mhigo...but stopped there, probably because the rest of Eorzea wasn't so keen on calling their gods. IIRC, Ala Mhigo was already in a turmoil under the reign on Theodoric, and maybe they thought to do the same as Ilberd in 3.55 back then.

But wasnt it the attack of the Garlean that killed Midgardsormr and destroyed the seal on the lake that kept some of the primals away from the world? And this is the reason they stopped the further conquest on Eorzea? And lets not forget that Ramuh was summoned because the Garlear are destroying the forest and the sylphs were afraid of them.

I only know Gaius from 2.0 since I never played 1.0 so I dont know much about him but didnt Yoshida say that it was not their intent to have people like him thus they created Zenos? Also he still saw us as lesser people because we had no such technology and he also ordered the attack on the old scions base thus killing lots of people even someone innocent as the sylph.

I also have quite the negative opinion about Garlemald (not each person but the empire itself and the ones ruling it). They do not only remind me of the roman empire but also about old Germany that started the third world war. Doing experiments on prisoners, their belief that they are the better race and their belief to kill the savages of the beast tribes, not caring that there are differences between them and that not all of them are under primal influence.

We also see how the soldiers from conquered countries dont really want to fight for them but have to out of fear for their family and that they would join our side as soon as they see that we win. Also they are destroying the cultures and belief of their conquered countries and seeing the river near one of their bases..well their are not really that good for the nature too.

Also I agree, they are a bit stupid too. I mean we have Zenos that is given free reign in Ala Mhigo even though his father new that he was a monster. Thus he created hate in these states which is a good way to start a rebellion. Also he killed his own people too which I am not really sure is a good way to keep people loyal. And instead of threating the children of parents from conquered countries as the same as their own they are creating a bad situation for themselves.

I mean if their only reason to conquer the countries is to save the world from primals, why destroy the pride and culture of conquered states that have nothing to do with primals? Why not let the villages do their old work, letting them earn money thus making them happier? I know that there are some good Garlearns that improved the situation in their country (even though I kinda wonder if they truly did it or if this is the belief of the children that grew up under their rule?) but looking at the story it seems that they are not the common ones.

I'm surprised there is zero mentions of Gaius's rule and the king of ruin and its just good guys bad guys this expansion. Then again the Garlean superiority complex is understandable due to their past and I could have sworn Ala Mhigans in the past did bully them to unless I mis-remember the gubal library stuff.

I think in the lore book it was only stated that they had to live in a cold harsh country because they could not go behind the ones that had magic, but I am not sure that Eorzea had any hands in this. They could have used their technology to secure their own border and maybe have a trade with other states but they choose to conquer the world with it.