It has begun!

[Dement]

I will absolutely agree that AST is unbalanced in comparison with WHM/SCH and won't argue that point in anyway, shape or form. The only thing I will comment on is that the groups who do this kind of thing are more often than not groups that a good player would rather not be a part of anyway. From my experience, groups that role lock based on a meta and not on general party balance are often so incompetent and have failed so many times that they're trying to up their odds through party composition rather than actual skill.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

You'll never have to "be forced" to level a certain healer.
Tbh, the only content where it could be a problem is savage content.
Like, if sch can't handle the heal or if healing requirement is very high.

But on every other content, healer should be just fine, even if they are not balance.

There has been NO content except savage at their release (or the next weeks) that needs a certain class more than another because they basically all can do it.

I don't think that's what they meant by being forced.
In 3.0, I stopped playing WHM in raids because it felt like I was purposely handicapping my party. AST could (and still can) do everything I could do, but offer more. So why am I playing WHM? That's the feeling you have when the power gap is so huge as it is now.

No one's going to be forced into different roles, but you'll feel so weak and unwanted that you will eventually fall into something you don't have as much fun playing.

[Velox]

I benefit of running AST/AST is that you have double the odds of getting Balance with every draw. Any kind of coordination between them so they don't override each other and AST/AST becomes the supreme heal combo from Balance alone.

[Aetherstar]

SE's & SE's White Knights response:
"All healers can clear the content, therefore all healers are viable. It's fine, you need to calm down!"

Fixed it for you.

[ToasterMan]

Good. I didn't think this would happen but this shows just how badly SE has failed to balance the healers.

Remember, this is why we didn't get any new tanks or healers this expansion.

SE needs to rework this job BADLY

[Donaria]

This post is pure win if you read it in a Kentucky accent. I think I'll respond in kind.

I fer one agree witchu, Verdan. Them cardbois are right powerful. Gotta kick like a mule. O' course, you wouldna felt it cuz the cardboi woulda healt chu before ya hit the ground. Hee hee.

Now, witthat said, noones gonna kick no white robe or bookboi outta na instance. That's jus' crazy talk an' enny one that tries sit will get tan earful from me!

(I mean the above in fun. True story, when I moved to Ohio from Louisiana no one could understand me. Stupid yankees. Now, I am one. Go fig.)

This made me laugh so much.

[Sebazy]

I don't think that's what they meant by being forced.
In 3.0, I stopped playing WHM in raids because it felt like I was purposely handicapping my party. AST could (and still can) do everything I could do, but offer more. So why am I playing WHM? That's the feeling you have when the power gap is so huge as it is now.

Are you for real? AST was a train wreck for early 3.0 progression. If you were holding your raid back in Gordias as a WHM then it was your playing ability that was at fault, not your choice of job.

As far as things stand at the moment, personally I'm seeing the best results with WHM/AST, but I suspect that's as much to do with me being much more comfortable playing WHM over the 4.0 changes to AST as anything else. As much as I love padding and pocketing my DPSers, WHM's brute force gameplay just works for me.

Logs aren't far off, that'll help clarify the current state of play.

[BlastHardcheese]

I agree with the above.

AST is a beautifully designed and versatile job but WHM is literally so simple it's hard to mess it up, it's an absolute animal built from the ground up to not let people die. If they tweak that stupid lily mechanic to work with skills that actually matter: It'll be even better.

SCH on the other hand...

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Are you for real? AST was a train wreck for early 3.0 progression. If you were holding your raid back in Gordias as a WHM then it was your playing ability that was at fault, not your choice of job.

As far as things stand at the moment, personally I'm seeing the best results with WHM/AST, but I suspect that's as much to do with me being much more comfortable playing WHM over the 4.0 changes to AST as anything else. As much as I love padding and pocketing my DPSers, WHM's brute force gameplay just works for me.

Logs aren't far off, that'll help clarify the current state of play.

Should have clarified, I meant from Creator and on.
Heck even in Midas, I felt the powercreep, but it wasn't so bad. Actually 3.2 was the closest to balance the healers have ever been since HW.

[Fernosaur]

Efficient healing only matters when you are running out of mana, and passive healing only matters when it allows you to actually avoid actively healing (ie: when you're farming stuff, with the current strength of fairy).

Both of those things matter a lot, actually, and all the time. Efficiency is not just MP efficiency, but GCD efficiency and your ability to transform what could be a healing gcd into a DPS gcd, which ties in tightly with passive healing. It matters a lot not only in farms but also in any kind of serious progression.

I'm not saying NoctAST is weak, but direct healing is not better than passive healing, specially one that is free in terms of both MP and GCD usage. It's also not even a matter of just Embrace, it's also Rouse, Whispering Dawn and Fey Illumination. Yes, NoctAST has better shields. Yes, it has better direct healing, but it's not more efficient than SCH's toolkit, which despite the changes that make it so boring to play hasn't really changed at it's core.

NoctAST+WHM might be the safest healer composition right now, though, I'll give you that. With the ridiculous on-demand healing potencies both of them have, I don't see how anyone would die.