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  1. #1
    Player
    Furious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    334
    Character
    Furious Laughter
    World
    Ravana
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Fernosaur View Post
    Tbf, double AST is a terrible combination due to the lack of passive healing from NoctAST, and only ends up making matters worse for both healers.

    Yes, AST is ridiculously powerful, we all know that, but NoctAST continues and will continue to be crap and unable to bring what SCH can bring with the passive and literally free healing, both in AoE and single target, as nerfed as Embrace and Fey Illumination were.

    This, however, is precisely the problem that WHM faces. AST+WHM will never be quite efficient so long as NoctAST cannot completely replace SCH's passive healing output. People who go around thinking double AST is the optimal meta are delusional and have no idea what efficient healing looks like. The problem here isn't that NoctAST is "weak," it's just that the design itself of Astrologian is flat out terrible from its conception, since it was made to replace either WHM or SCH in a party instead of allowing it to have its own identity.
    Um.. did you drink some kind of special coolaid?

    Noct AST is stupidly strong, the benefit of "passive" healing is completely ameliorated by the strength of their active healing and significantly shorter phases thanks to card buffs. Efficient healing only matters when you are running out of mana, and passive healing only matters when it allows you to actually avoid actively healing (ie: when you're farming stuff, with the current strength of fairy).
    (4)

  2. #2
    Player
    Fernosaur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    711
    Character
    Hazel Korhonen
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Furious View Post
    Efficient healing only matters when you are running out of mana, and passive healing only matters when it allows you to actually avoid actively healing (ie: when you're farming stuff, with the current strength of fairy).
    Both of those things matter a lot, actually, and all the time. Efficiency is not just MP efficiency, but GCD efficiency and your ability to transform what could be a healing gcd into a DPS gcd, which ties in tightly with passive healing. It matters a lot not only in farms but also in any kind of serious progression.

    I'm not saying NoctAST is weak, but direct healing is not better than passive healing, specially one that is free in terms of both MP and GCD usage. It's also not even a matter of just Embrace, it's also Rouse, Whispering Dawn and Fey Illumination. Yes, NoctAST has better shields. Yes, it has better direct healing, but it's not more efficient than SCH's toolkit, which despite the changes that make it so boring to play hasn't really changed at it's core.

    NoctAST+WHM might be the safest healer composition right now, though, I'll give you that. With the ridiculous on-demand healing potencies both of them have, I don't see how anyone would die.
    (2)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    In 3.x, Cover was useless and everyone wanted a gap closer. In 4.x, gap closers are useless and everyone wants Cover.

  3. #3
    Player
    Kethic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    218
    Character
    Kethic Zachrias
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    I will say that White Mage has some ridiculous healing power at times. I had a cohealer disconnect on me in susano ex, I was able to carry the raid as a White Mage through swords and beyond, solo. I was spent by the time my partner came back, but it only took me 30 seconds to recover once they returned.
    (5)

  4. #4
    Player
    Sebazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    3,468
    Character
    Sebazy Spiritwalker
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry View Post
    Should have clarified, I meant from Creator and on.
    Heck even in Midas, I felt the powercreep, but it wasn't so bad. Actually 3.2 was the closest to balance the healers have ever been since HW.
    That makes a lot more sense aye. I'll agree with you on 3.2, Noct was still a little underwhelming but you saw a good amount of all 3 healers even for progression with many (mine included) groups switching comps on a turn by turn basis. The meta was much too close to call and it was only really the 3.0 stigma holding back AST in some people's eyes. It makes me wonder if SE would be better off just giving up on the whole Dia/Noct thing and just keeping AST as an alternative to WHM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kethic View Post
    I will say that White Mage has some ridiculous healing power at times. I had a cohealer disconnect on me in susano ex, I was able to carry the raid as a White Mage through swords and beyond, solo. I was spent by the time my partner came back, but it only took me 30 seconds to recover once they returned.
    Align thin air with the big throughput phases such as sword and lightning strikes (particularly if you've got people forgetting to move). The amount of MP you can save with it is nothing short of incredible especially if you can get your group to stack tight enough for cure 3.
    (7)
    Last edited by Sebazy; 06-29-2017 at 05:28 PM.
    ~ WHM / badSCH / Snob ~ http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/871132/ ~

  5. #5
    Player
    OcieKo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    409
    Character
    Ociela Koslun
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Sebazy View Post
    It makes me wonder if SE would be better off just giving up on the whole Dia/Noct thing and just keeping AST as an alternative to WHM.
    I would hide this thought before WHMs cry at the inevitable change that would come with it... Only 1 Medica II and Regen per target, then WHM/WHM would have to suffer like the other 2. SCHs just being boned and ASTs having to hope the second prefers the other sect. Tho honestly Im surprised they havent removed that WHM ability yet.
    Or AST getting to stack AHelios/ABene.

    Edit: Forgot about Noct and SCH hating each other as well.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    Vyriah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    200
    Character
    Vyriah Altaisen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Fernosaur View Post
    it's not more efficient than SCH's toolkit, which despite the changes that make it so boring to play hasn't really changed at it's core.
    Say that to my dead tanks.

    Meanwhile, I'm just gonna level AST so I can properly heal through dungeons and enter PF.
    (3)