[SPOILERS] Stormblood Ending

[Falar]

I never said that the things she's done are excused by her tragic past. I'm saying that it's important to believe that people like her can change, can be redeemed, and that can't happen when they're dead. That's also the entire reason Lyse tries to save Zenos.

Well, the reason I enjoy the DRK storyline so much is because I just prefer killing people this bad.

Too bad they don't give us an option.

[Fatestorm]

In general, the number of major characters to survive the 4.0 MSQ pleases me, if only because earlier arcs made such a mess of death and "final farewells" that the prospect of seeing characters grow beyond the original confines of their "role" is something new and exciting for FFXIV.

Seriously, though. Are we just supposed to kill everyone who's ever done anything bad in their lives? I know I'd be dead. It's lost in the white-noise of 2.0 flavor-text, but the Scions have a thing for holding mass executions of Tempered. Is that okay, then, as long as the good guys decide it's right?

Well-said. Hear, hear. This expansion beat to death with the characters telling each other "no noble sacrifices", and it's hard not to see that as a bit of a fourth-wall breaking wink. "We know we do this a lot--we're trying to do better." Good job, good path, SE.

[Vayanne]

Especially unnecessary noble sacrifices.
“Of course I can just push you away from that magical spear, there is plenty of time, but… It would look much more heroic and badass if I blocked it with my shield, right?”
“While we have plenty of time to talk and there’s a lot of debris lying around perfectly suitable for supporting that roof, why not let me show you how good at lifting I am?”

[Kallera]

Well-said. Hear, hear. This expansion beat to death with the characters telling each other "no noble sacrifices", and it's hard not to see that as a bit of a fourth-wall breaking wink. "We know we do this a lot--we're trying to do better." Good job, good path, SE.

They are saving themselves for 5.0. which would be a dissappointing end if it didn't turn out an utter bloodbath.

[Alleo]

I'm saying that it's important to believe that people like her can change, can be redeemed, and that can't happen when they're dead.

And what should the alliance or doma do with her? Even if she suddenly is full of regret because she was saved by Gosetsu (which would feel like bad characterization for me) this still would not mean that her crimes are forgotten. Heck we have a scientist that lost his memory and he still is punished for his old crimes, even though he cant remember them. And since this is no modern world I can see a death sentence as one of the only punishments for such crimes. They could have shown some regret when she was alone..maybe even have her change a bit in the middle of all and thus if she later regrets this, it would become much more believable. People can change but its really hard to swallow that a long life hatred will be going away just by getting saved once.

And like others already said, she enjoyed torturing innocent people. Making others shot their own family or friends. And she also mistreated her bodyguard. (That person did not deserve what happened to them. Damn the empire is messed up) Also if Gosetsu wasnt such a strong person that was able to hold it while being wounded like that, she would have killed us too. So I just cant see why we should sympathize with her at all. I will also not sympathize with Zenos.

If we have a dictator in real life that killed millions of people thanks to some hatred then I am quite sure that most, if not all, people would not want that person to be redeemed even if they somehow had a bad childhood.

About Zenos himself: Well it might have been explained why he was able to beat us twice (and I still dont like it) but how are we somehow able to beat him + dragon after only some time to get stronger? I mean it was not years between the second and the last fight so how are we suddenly that strong? Even if we somehow had other people with us, it still would not explain how we beat them..these two are monsters on their own already. Maybe they should have left this fight for the end of the expansion. Because then we would have at least some more time to get stronger.

[Kallera]

snip.

The WoL would be long dead by our own morality standards.

There is also the matter of civilians, Garlean and otherwise, that took to the occupation just fine and would see the alliance as the new oppressors. just how many people are going to get the axe simply for living under their new rulers?

There is a point where the naivete of Liberation gives away to realities on the ground. anyone who thinks Eorzea has the answers for the world is fooling themselves.

[Clethoria]

Especially unnecessary noble sacrifices.
“Of course I can just push you away from that magical spear, there is plenty of time, but… It would look much more heroic and badass if I blocked it with my shield, right?”
“While we have plenty of time to talk and there’s a lot of debris lying around perfectly suitable for supporting that roof, why not let me show you how good at lifting I am?”

It's even worse depending on what class you are. Lyse uses Shoulder Tackle in cutscenes and the only time it doesn't work is because of legit BS. But it's an option. It's downright stupid when my Monk is just standing there like /alert and not doing anything. Or anything with a healer.

Also during the entire Doma exchange I'm just sitting there like "Damn he's been holding that roof up for awhile we all could have walked single file out this place by now."

[Alleo]

Yes our own morality standard is different from theirs thus I cant just see how they would truly redeem her without her dying along the way. Also imo there is still a difference between killing soldiers and people in a fight (and its often the other people that start the fight with us) and outright just killing innocent fishermen that are not even armed. So yes we as the WoL did kill countless of people but I cant remember any instance where a person was truly innocent. And like a certain job quest shows, it does burden the WoL. So its not that they enjoy killing all those people. If we ever go around and are really happy to kill someone innocent then I am fine with seeing the WoL on the same way as guys like Zenos or her. But until them I still see the WoL with a higher ground than those.

I also know that there will be people that are opposed to this, exactly how you had people that did not want the dragon war to stop. Yet wouldnt it have been the wrong way to just continue the war just because not everyone is behind it? The same can be said about the liberation. First this land was not part of Garlemald. They conquered it so they have no true rights to owning it. Also we see that they are at least not very kind to people from Ala Mhigo, so other than those that are born directly in it and raised as someone from Garlemald, most of the people will probably want to be free. Even in real life you might have the worst dictatorship that needs to be put down and yet you will probably find some people that want to keep it.

Also I know that the Eorzean city states are no angels but they are nowhere near as bad as Garlemald. They might not do the right decisions all the time but it would be naive to think that there would be any kind of country without some mistakes. I also cant believe that that many people will lose their lives under the Eorzean alliance. If you betray it then yes it might happen, or if you did some really bad stuff under the old nation..but all those things would be punishable even in our time.

In the end I dont believe that Eorzea has all the answers but I see them as the way lesser evil. Especially for countries like Ala Mhigo and Doma, who suffered greatly under the Garlean rule. And lets not forget that Raubahn asked the leader of the rebellion if they even want their help because they did not want to be seen as another oppressor and Hien wanted Yugiri to find out if the people even want to be free or not and was ready to give his head if they are not. So even the game mentions stuff like that.

[EdwinLi]

----

Honestly, the old Doma before Garlean rule was hardly any different from how Yotsuyu treated the Domans. From the lore the old government was mostly rule by corrupt Nobles who basically did what Yutsuyu did but since there was multiple Nobles doing this the hatred was far more spread out. When Yotsuyu took control she just basically continued what these corrupt Nobles been doing all this time but instead became the single focus of it since there was no longer multiple people doing this.

People wanted to say Doma before Garlean rule was slightly better but in reality it was the same and the hatred was just more spread out.

[Dreggit]

Shinryu and omega went in opposition directions right? But Shynru was in Ala Mhigo and omega in what I call, Estinien's Hole which is also in Ala Mhigo.

So if that were true, do you think Shynru was moved from Doma or is this anormal oversight?