Race Differences

[Answa]

I hated race differences in FFXI. I really don't want them in this game, to any degree. Since we're freely able to change classes, then I see it as a detriment to be penalized due to something I picked purely for its aesthetics.

[Ryans]

I hated race differences in FFXI. I really don't want them in this game, to any degree. Since we're freely able to change classes, then I see it as a detriment to be penalized due to something I picked purely for its aesthetics.

A game where you are freely able to change classes is a game that needs race differences the most. A world of gray needs shades of black and white for contrast. If everyone is exactly the same, there is no reason to pick one person (with whom you have no prior experience with, for sake of argument) over another.

In FFXI, a decent portion of the population believed that you shouldn't invite a galka who is a caster because they couldn't compare to basically any other race in that matter. The fact is that it isn't true. A galka wouldn't be able to gear themselves using the traditional method and had to think outside of the conventional to compete with a taru of the same skill and level.

There were many a galka that could out DD a taru simply because the taru had a sense of entitlement and didn't think they'd have to try too hard to compete.

I guess my point is that the game needs some way to distinguish between characters, be it race changes or class changes. Maybe the upcoming job system will be enough to diversify the classes, but the problem will likely still remain that everyone will have everything leveled to cap and therefore very similar.

[Shneibel]

A game where you are freely able to change classes is a game that needs race differences the most. A world of gray needs shades of black and white for contrast. If everyone is exactly the same, there is no reason to pick one person (with whom you have no prior experience with, for sake of argument) over another.

In FFXI, a decent portion of the population believed that you shouldn't invite a galka who is a caster because they couldn't compare to basically any other race in that matter. The fact is that it isn't true. A galka wouldn't be able to gear themselves using the traditional method and had to think outside of the conventional to compete with a taru of the same skill and level.

There were many a galka that could out DD a taru simply because the taru had a sense of entitlement and didn't think they'd have to try too hard to compete.

I guess my point is that the game needs some way to distinguish between characters, be it race changes or class changes. Maybe the upcoming job system will be enough to diversify the classes, but the problem will likely still remain that everyone will have everything leveled to cap and therefore very similar.

just that bold line is enough for a no vote, you cant get ppl out of that mind set

also FYI the stats in this game is not all about Kill mobs, it effect craft also, if there is a different like you said, then that mean I who play Miqote of the moon can only be effective in WVR GSM because my highest stat is dex ?

[Ryans]

just that bold line is enough for a no vote, you cant get ppl out of that mind set

also FYI the stats in this game is not all about Kill mobs, it effect craft also, if there is a different like you said, then that mean I who play Miqote of the moon can only be effective in WVR GSM because my highest stat is dex ?

I never said that the stat difference should be like it was in FFXI, in fact I hinted to quite the contrary. I want there to be some difference in stats; something like 5-10% taken out from one or two stats and added to another. The lore of game suggests that certain races are better at certain things, but in practice it is the opposite. A Roedagyn CNJ should not have the exact same base stats as a Lalafell CNJ.

As for the issue with crafting, if you think that having a little less of a stat makes you completely incompetent in any given class, crafting or otherwise, you are mistaken. And if I am wrong about the minimal stat difference affecting crafting so much that it makes a race unable to partake in the said craft, SE could balance DoH and DoL classes to all have the same stats but have DoW and DoM classes have variation between races.

[Shneibel]

I never said that the stat difference should be like it was in FFXI, in fact I hinted to quite the contrary. I want there to be some difference in stats; something like 5-10% taken out from one or two stats and added to another. The lore of game suggests that certain races are better at certain things, but in practice it is the opposite. A Roedagyn CNJ should not have the exact same base stats as a Lalafell CNJ.

As for the issue with crafting, if you think that having a little less of a stat makes you completely incompetent in any given class, crafting or otherwise, you are mistaken. And if I am wrong about the minimal stat difference affecting crafting so much that it makes a race unable to partake in the said craft, SE could balance DoH and DoL classes to all have the same stats but have DoW and DoM classes have variation between races.

then isn't it better to not touch the stat at all for both DoW, DoM, DoH and DoL. There is no reason to fix the DoW and DoM and then balanced out the DoH and DoL, after go around and around you re back to where you start.

FYI: stat in craft doesn't do much but increase quality to the craft item, mean it only effect HQ of craft item. I think you should play the game more before make a suggest like this.

this ll be my last reply to this thread:

imo the stat is fine as it is, ppl can be all and can custom their char with materia and this the current stat system prevent the nightmare from the last mmorpg of those year where ppl have to be picky about race because of their class.

ninja edit: and prevent ppl to be lock out as well, atm we are being lock out enough already, dont need more

[Ryans]

then isn't it better to not touch the stat at all for both DoW, DoM, DoH and DoL. There is no reason to fix the DoW and DoM and then balanced out the DoH and DoL, after go around and around you re back to where you start.

FYI: stat in craft doesn't do much but increase quality to the craft item, mean it only effect HQ of craft item. I think you should play the game more before make a suggest like this.

this ll be my last reply to this thread:

imo the stat is fine as it is, ppl can be all and can custom their char with materia and this the current stat system prevent the nightmare from the last mmorpg of those year where ppl have to be picky about race because of their class.

ninja edit: and prevent ppl to be lock out as well, atm we are being lock out enough already, dont need more

I'm confused at to what your point is, particularly where you say that balancing stats for DoW and DoM will force them to rebalance DoH and DoL stats. I'm really confused how we would be "back to where (we) start" after the initial changes I'm suggesting. It would be a very simple fix, mathematically speaking not programming wise as I have little knowledge of the coding necessary, to counter the racial stat difference for crafting classes by negating the racial difference when you switch to a DoH.

Are you saying that DoW and DoM classes should not have variation in stats between races because it will affect DoH and DoL chances for HQ? If you are, I don't see how my previous post is not a fix to the problem. Your race will affect your DoW and DoM classes but not your DoH/DoL.

[Atoli]

I'm curious if you read all the posts...At no point did I suggest that one race will outshine every other race in a certain class[...].

[...]something like 5-10% taken out from one or two stats and added to another. The lore of game suggests that certain races are better at certain things, but in practice it is the opposite.

5-10% is a lot. It's by far enough to let one race outshine another one.
Actually, everything except for the 3 STR you quoted is enough to force people to play a race they don't like just to be good in a certain class..which is, btw, not even making any sense at all, because we are supposed to rank up ALL classes.

Oh, and yes, I DID read all the posts in this thread.

A Roedagyn CNJ should not have the exact same base stats as a Lalafell CNJ.

So a person HAS to be stupid and unable to listen to the voices in all the things just because he is born with a big, strong body? Wow, way to go for ingame racism..

In FFXI, a decent portion of the population believed that you shouldn't invite a galka who is a caster because they couldn't compare to basically any other race in that matter. The fact is that it isn't true. A galka wouldn't be able to gear themselves using the traditional method and had to think outside of the conventional to compete with a taru of the same skill and level.

And basically, the people were right most of the time, because with such a huge difference as implied, it's impossible to be better then a Taru.
Maybe better than a Taru who used crappy gear and never tried to play his class with any effort, but you have to compare people with the same mindset, and that would be someone caring for the Conjurer job:
A Galka could never be as good as a Tarutaru CNJ, simply because he was "born" a Galka.
No "thinking out of the ordinary" will change that.

And to say something about your opinion about a free-to-choose-game like FFXIV needing such differences even MORE:
No, it doesn't.
Because even if you give any Rogaedyn crappy magic and every Miqo'te lots of Dex, it still won't distinguish peope from one another, simply for the fact that at least 1/4 of the players in the entire GAME have this race, and because of that, the same base stats.
In reality, it's even up to about 40% of the players with Miqo'te for example.

The only thing which will really make people individual is their OWN stat build.
It's the only thing every individual can decide on his- or herself.
And we are getting that back with future patches, so..

Still, NO for race differences.

[Ryans]

5-10% is a lot. It's by far enough to let one race outshine another one.
Actually, everything except for the 3 STR you quoted is enough to force people to play a race they don't like just to be good in a certain class..which is, btw, not even making any sense at all, because we are supposed to rank up ALL classes.

Oh, and yes, I DID read all the posts in this thread.


So a person HAS to be stupid and unable to listen to the voices in all the things just because he is born with a big, strong body? Wow, way to go for ingame racism..



And basically, the people were right most of the time, because with such a huge difference as implied, it's impossible to be better then a Taru.
Maybe better than a Taru who used crappy gear and never tried to play his class with any effort, but you have to compare people with the same mindset, and that would be someone caring for the Conjurer job:
A Galka could never be as good as a Tarutaru CNJ, simply because he was "born" a Galka.
No "thinking out of the ordinary" will change that.

And to say something about your opinion about a free-to-choose-game like FFXIV needing such differences even MORE:
No, it doesn't.
Because even if you give any Rogaedyn crappy magic and every Miqo'te lots of Dex, it still won't distinguish peope from one another, simply for the fact that at least 1/4 of the players in the entire GAME have this race, and because of that, the same base stats.
In reality, it's even up to about 40% of the players with Miqo'te for example.

The only thing which will really make people individual is their OWN stat build.
It's the only thing every individual can decide on his- or herself.
And we are getting that back with future patches, so..

Still, NO for race differences.

And again, you take your argument to the extreme to try to prove your point. Have you looked the stats in the game? At 50, you average between 150-200 of a given base stat. 5-10% of that is between 7-20 points. That is... you guessed it... one tier IV materia. If you think that difference is enough to ruin a class for any race, you are just plain wrong.

And yes, there should be racism in a game that has more than one bloody race. Its not the same kind of racism that exists in our world because we are all one race.

I do agree that the individual stat builds will be a great improvement but it will still lead to people having the same basic stat layout. There is going to be someone, some where, that figures out exactly how much piety, int, and mnd is best for a fight. That doesn't create a difference in characters, it just creates an extra step to get to clones of each other, just in different bodies.

[Atoli]

And again, you take your argument to the extreme to try to prove your point.

Someone posted before me how great the difference is even without taking things to extremes, so I won't answer on that part.
Just: The 7 points difference you mentioned is what we already HAVE, therefore: no need to change anything.

There is going to be someone, some where, that figures out exactly how much piety, int, and mnd is best for a fight. That doesn't create a difference in characters, it just creates an extra step to get to clones of each other, just in different bodies.

That's always going to happen. But you at least have the choice to be different.
Forced individuality is no real individuality.
Having the choice to be what you want to be is individuality, even if you decide to be the same as others.
I think you need to understand that.

Btw, you just ignored the part of my post that was the strongest argument against what you said:
You want race differences for more individuality.
1. Base stats have pretty much no effect on individuality, because what matters is what people add their points to later.
2. About 35% of the players are Miqo'tes, 40% are Hyur and 25% are Lalafell and Elezen.
But even if every race would only be 25% of the ingame population, it would mean every 4th player I meet has the same stats as me. Great individuality..

[Ryans]

Btw, you just ignored the part of my post that was the strongest argument against what you said:
You want race differences for more individuality.
1. Base stats have pretty much no effect on individuality, because what matters is what people add their points to later.
2. About 35% of the players are Miqo'tes, 40% are Hyur and 25% are Lalafell and Elezen.
But even if every race would only be 25% of the ingame population, it would mean every 4th player I meet has the same stats as me. Great individuality..

I didn't ignore your argument for the sake of not wanting to be proved wrong, it just had no barring on what I am proposing. The point is to make the races individual, not each player. I want you to be the same as other members of the same race, to a degree. I don't want you to be the same as every other player of the same class.

As others have mentioned, the community "forces" people into the ideal method of how the game ought to be played. Giving everyone the ability to be individual in every aspect of their character only breeds conformity. This isn't true in reality, but in a game, it is very true. However if the game is designed to have minor differences between a few selections that players get to pick from then at least something is actually individualized to smaller groups, instead of the whole being identical.