It has begun!

[Starflake]

I've cleared Lakshmi Ex and Susano Ex with Double SCH. The AST-AST PF groups are nothing but sheeple. Following the meta-herd hoping that an overpowered class can carry them in "end-game" Sad.

Or, you know, picking classes which bring the most to a raid for faster clears and thus better productivity?

[Fernosaur]

Or, you know, picking classes which bring the most to a raid for faster clears and thus better productivity?

Tbf, double AST is a terrible combination due to the lack of passive healing from NoctAST, and only ends up making matters worse for both healers.

Yes, AST is ridiculously powerful, we all know that, but NoctAST continues and will continue to be crap and unable to bring what SCH can bring with the passive and literally free healing, both in AoE and single target, as nerfed as Embrace and Fey Illumination were.

This, however, is precisely the problem that WHM faces. AST+WHM will never be quite efficient so long as NoctAST cannot completely replace SCH's passive healing output. People who go around thinking double AST is the optimal meta are delusional and have no idea what efficient healing looks like. The problem here isn't that NoctAST is "weak," it's just that the design itself of Astrologian is flat out terrible from its conception, since it was made to replace either WHM or SCH in a party instead of allowing it to have its own identity.

[Starflake]

Tbf, double AST is a terrible combination due to the lack of passive healing from NoctAST, and only ends up making matters worse for both healers.

AST is ridiculously powerful, we all know that, but NoctAST continues and will continue to be crap and unable to bring what SCH can bring with the passive and literally free healing, both in AoE and single target, as nerfed as Embrace and Fey Illumination were.

This, however, is precisely the problem that WHM faces. AST+WHM will never be quite efficient so long as NoctAST cannot replace SCH's passive healing output. People who go around thinking double AST is the optimal meta are delusional and have no idea what efficient healing looks like. The problem here isn't that NoctAST is "weak," it's just that the design itself of Astrologian is flat out terrible from its conception, since it was made to replace either WHM or SCH in a party instead of allowing it to have its own identity.

As someone who mains a WHM now instead of SCH with a Noct Astro healer, I have no idea what you are talking about. Embrace isn't even that great. Noct AST has greater shields, single target and aoe (beats succor). The only thing that it does not have is a spreadlo, which is rarely required purely in itself. AST also has a better bubble to stand in. It has access to Bole and all sorts of party buffs. WHM raw healing is incredibly strong and so is its DPS. Its a perfectly fine combo and perhaps the strongest one out there at the moment.

[Furious]

Tbf, double AST is a terrible combination due to the lack of passive healing from NoctAST, and only ends up making matters worse for both healers.

Yes, AST is ridiculously powerful, we all know that, but NoctAST continues and will continue to be crap and unable to bring what SCH can bring with the passive and literally free healing, both in AoE and single target, as nerfed as Embrace and Fey Illumination were.

This, however, is precisely the problem that WHM faces. AST+WHM will never be quite efficient so long as NoctAST cannot completely replace SCH's passive healing output. People who go around thinking double AST is the optimal meta are delusional and have no idea what efficient healing looks like. The problem here isn't that NoctAST is "weak," it's just that the design itself of Astrologian is flat out terrible from its conception, since it was made to replace either WHM or SCH in a party instead of allowing it to have its own identity.

Um.. did you drink some kind of special coolaid?

Noct AST is stupidly strong, the benefit of "passive" healing is completely ameliorated by the strength of their active healing and significantly shorter phases thanks to card buffs. Efficient healing only matters when you are running out of mana, and passive healing only matters when it allows you to actually avoid actively healing (ie: when you're farming stuff, with the current strength of fairy).

[Fernosaur]

Efficient healing only matters when you are running out of mana, and passive healing only matters when it allows you to actually avoid actively healing (ie: when you're farming stuff, with the current strength of fairy).

Both of those things matter a lot, actually, and all the time. Efficiency is not just MP efficiency, but GCD efficiency and your ability to transform what could be a healing gcd into a DPS gcd, which ties in tightly with passive healing. It matters a lot not only in farms but also in any kind of serious progression.

I'm not saying NoctAST is weak, but direct healing is not better than passive healing, specially one that is free in terms of both MP and GCD usage. It's also not even a matter of just Embrace, it's also Rouse, Whispering Dawn and Fey Illumination. Yes, NoctAST has better shields. Yes, it has better direct healing, but it's not more efficient than SCH's toolkit, which despite the changes that make it so boring to play hasn't really changed at it's core.

NoctAST+WHM might be the safest healer composition right now, though, I'll give you that. With the ridiculous on-demand healing potencies both of them have, I don't see how anyone would die.

[Kethic]

I will say that White Mage has some ridiculous healing power at times. I had a cohealer disconnect on me in susano ex, I was able to carry the raid as a White Mage through swords and beyond, solo. I was spent by the time my partner came back, but it only took me 30 seconds to recover once they returned.

[Sebazy]

Should have clarified, I meant from Creator and on.
Heck even in Midas, I felt the powercreep, but it wasn't so bad. Actually 3.2 was the closest to balance the healers have ever been since HW.

That makes a lot more sense aye. I'll agree with you on 3.2, Noct was still a little underwhelming but you saw a good amount of all 3 healers even for progression with many (mine included) groups switching comps on a turn by turn basis. The meta was much too close to call and it was only really the 3.0 stigma holding back AST in some people's eyes. It makes me wonder if SE would be better off just giving up on the whole Dia/Noct thing and just keeping AST as an alternative to WHM.

I will say that White Mage has some ridiculous healing power at times. I had a cohealer disconnect on me in susano ex, I was able to carry the raid as a White Mage through swords and beyond, solo. I was spent by the time my partner came back, but it only took me 30 seconds to recover once they returned.

Align thin air with the big throughput phases such as sword and lightning strikes (particularly if you've got people forgetting to move). The amount of MP you can save with it is nothing short of incredible especially if you can get your group to stack tight enough for cure 3.

[OcieKo]

It makes me wonder if SE would be better off just giving up on the whole Dia/Noct thing and just keeping AST as an alternative to WHM.

I would hide this thought before WHMs cry at the inevitable change that would come with it... Only 1 Medica II and Regen per target, then WHM/WHM would have to suffer like the other 2. SCHs just being boned and ASTs having to hope the second prefers the other sect. Tho honestly Im surprised they havent removed that WHM ability yet.
Or AST getting to stack AHelios/ABene.

Edit: Forgot about Noct and SCH hating each other as well.

[Vyriah]

it's not more efficient than SCH's toolkit, which despite the changes that make it so boring to play hasn't really changed at it's core.

Say that to my dead tanks.

Meanwhile, I'm just gonna level AST so I can properly heal through dungeons and enter PF.

[Maku]

Yes, AST is ridiculously powerful, we all know that, but NoctAST continues and will continue to be crap and unable to bring what SCH can bring with the passive and literally free healing, both in AoE and single target, as nerfed as Embrace and Fey Illumination were.

Going to go out on a limb and say, literally every AST would like to have a word with you. I was a SCH main all through HW. I am now a AST main and use Noct almost exclusively, unless paired with a SCH or another AST. I out shine my SCH in all ways.