Request: Limiting the number of blatant Game of Thrones references in future?

[Abriael]

I honestly am more bothered by the liberties taken by the localization team overall.

There are several parts of the dialogue in which the Japanese dialogue and the English text say entirely different things. In Stormblood there are moments in which a line is literally cut in half (in meaning, not just in length) in the English dialogue compared to the Japanese.

It's not Sega-levels of bad, but it is pretty disconcerting is you understand some Japanese.

[ColorOfSakura]

I honestly am more bothered by the liberties taken by the localization team overall.

There are several parts of the dialogue in which the Japanese dialogue and the English text say entirely different things. In Stormblood there are moments in which a line is literally cut in half (in meaning, not just in length) in the English dialogue compared to the Japanese.

It's not Sega-levels of bad, but it is pretty disconcerting is you understand some Japanese.

Localization is not translation. Localization is taking text and making it fit and understandable for a western audience. Japanese and English operate as very different languages. English relies more on subtlety and things being inferred, whereas Japanese makes more sense to just spell everything out. If you do that in English, it becomes patronizing and almost condescending to the person reading the text. So honestly, it makes more sense for the English text to read as fairly different from the original Japanese text because of how they want to present the information to the playerbase.

[Abriael]

Localization is not translation. Localization is taking text and making it fit and understandable for a western audience. Japanese and English operate as very different languages. English relies more on subtlety and things being inferred, whereas Japanese makes more sense to just spell everything out. If you do that in English, it becomes patronizing and almost condescending to the person reading the text. So honestly, it makes more sense for the English text to read as fairly different from the original Japanese text because of how they want to present the information to the playerbase.

I'm intimately aware of that all. It's always funny how people ready to defend poor localization always seem to assume that whoever they're discussing with doesn't know what localization entails.

The point is that there are plenty of cases in which relevant information is omitted or relationships between characters are misrepresented.

A very clear example is the fact that Estinien calls the warrior of light "aibou" in Japanese, meaning partner. There are several ways to localize this, but in English it's simply lost, and it's a big loss, as it shows how the cold and detached Estinien has been touched by the warrior of light and opened up to trust him/her.

This kind of conceptual loss is simply an example of bad localization. There are no two ways about it.

[MomomiMomi]

I'm intimately aware of that all. It's always funny how people ready to defend poor localization always seem to assume that whoever they're discussing with doesn't know what localization entails.

The point is that there are plenty of cases in which relevant information is omitted or relationships between characters are misrepresented.

A very clear example is the fact that Estinien calls the warrior of light "aibou" in Japanese, meaning partner. There are several ways to localize this, but in English it's simply lost, and it's a big loss, as it shows how the cold and detached Estinien has been touched by the warrior of light and opened up to trust him/her.

This kind of conceptual loss is simply an example of bad localization.

Not necessarily. Changing relationships to better fit a different culture's tastes is also part of localization. You may not like it, but that doesn't mean it's bad localization.

Note that I don't like it either.

In the case of Estinien, we can see that he has opened up to us. We don't need him to express it so obviously.

[MrSmiley]

Not necessarily. Changing relationships to better fit a different culture's tastes is also part of localization. You may not like it, but that doesn't mean it's bad localization.

Note that I don't like it either.

In the case of Estinien, we can see that he has opened up to us. We don't need him to express it so obviously.

We also don't have a focus on the terms we use to call people to have a deeper meaning like they sometimes do in Japan. We may use "bro" or "pal" or maybe something a little more elegant, but it doesn't have a deep meaning here. In japan were things like honorifics are a thing, the way you address or refer to someone means a lot more than it does here.

if he started using the word partner or friend, or whatever a lot, it would look weird to a lot of people.

[Abriael]

Not necessarily. Changing relationships to better fit a different culture's tastes is also part of localization. You may not like it, but that doesn't mean it's bad localization.

Note that I don't like it either.

In the case of Estinien, we can see that he has opened up to us. We don't need him to express it so obviously.

Oh yes. It definitely means that it's bad localization. For such a reclusive person to openly expresses the fact that he sees you as a partner is a *big* part of that revelation. Changing openly vocalizing such an important change to simply implying it means effectively changing the character. It has absolutely zero to do with fitting the target culture's tastes.

[MomomiMomi]

Oh yes. It definitely means that it's bad localization. For such a reclusive person to openly expresses the fact that he sees you as a partner is a *big* part of that revelation. Changing openly vocalizing such an important change to simply implying it means effectively changing the character. It has absolutely zero to do with fitting the target culture's tastes.

Calling me "partner" or anything like it is going to sound really cheesy. This is where culture comes in. We don't do that here.

[Abriael]

Calling me "partner" or anything like it is going to sound really cheesy. This is where culture comes in. We don't do that here.

It sounds cheesy in both cultures. It's supposed to, and it fits Estinien's role and change perfectly. He's not used to be social, so he does so in a slightly awkward way. Japanese do that even less than here, which makes it even more special.

Having worked in localization for six years in the past, I always find it funny how some in that role nowadays try to feed to the masses that theirs is an authorship role, while it should be in service of the author's world view and creativity. What makes it even worse is how certain media outlets are doing their utmost to roll that drum in order to further their own agendas in which different development cultures are flattened to western taste and standards.

[Dualgunner]

Oh yes. It definitely means that it's bad localization. For such a reclusive person to openly expresses the fact that he sees you as a partner is a *big* part of that revelation. Changing openly vocalizing such an important change to simply implying it means effectively changing the character. It has absolutely zero to do with fitting the target culture's tastes.

Saw this and felt like replying:

Though he never refers to my character as partner, having done all the DRG questline he did make several references to the fact we're both cold hard badasses working together under the name of the Azure Dragoon. So while he never said "We're partners, partner." He did make intonations that gave me that same sense of feeling.

I swear I'm going to make a thread that lists all of the references that my husband, myself and friends have recognized over the years that probably fly over the heads of most people. Most F.A.T.E.s and quest titles are references. Achievements, too. This is not even counting puns/wordplay (like Special Tarasque Force).

• Sharknado - FATE -B rated movie of the same name; has a cult following.
• By the Horns - FATE - Chocobo named "Bull Chocobo"- in reference to the phrase, "to catch a bull by the horns."
• The Migas Touch - FATE - in reference to The Midas Touch
• You're Tearing Me Apart - achievement - in reference to a line spoken in the B rated movie, The Room.
• The Lady in Red - Stormblood MSQ - song reference to Lady in Red; the achievement is "Cheek to Cheek" upon completing this quest, which is a lyric from the song (in case you doubted the reference).

There's just soooooooooooo many references. I know there's a list floating around of just references made in FFXIV toward other FF titles.

Off the top of my head:

The Big Bagoly Theory
The Big Banquet Theory
The Secret Life of Plants (Secret Life of Pets maybe?)

[Kaedan]

I honestly am more bothered by the liberties taken by the localization team overall.

There are several parts of the dialogue in which the Japanese dialogue and the English text say entirely different things. In Stormblood there are moments in which a line is literally cut in half (in meaning, not just in length) in the English dialogue compared to the Japanese.

It's not Sega-levels of bad, but it is pretty disconcerting is you understand some Japanese.

While the localization team isn't perfect, they do a fine job. There are very few circumstances where the meaning conveyed in Japanese is significantly changed in the English version. And there are no circumstances where important information in the Japanese is not conveyed in the English. They sometimes shift some information to a previous or following sentence (or two later), but they never outright skip important info.