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  1. #1
    Player
    Ariomi's Avatar
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    Jun 2017
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    184
    Character
    Ariyala Amaterasu
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Priya View Post
    Number wise, SMN is fine right now. We\'ll see what the balance patch does.

    Gameplay wise, SMN is absolutely clunky and incredibly punishing. Numbers will change, but that means nothing if the class is awful to play.
    I've run into groups who won't run with smn cause their dps is too low.
    Classes like Bard dragoon and Samurai can outdps summoners by 600 dps
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    Silverquick's Avatar
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    Mar 2017
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    893
    Character
    Silverquick Fox
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariomi View Post
    I've run into groups who won't run with smn cause their dps is too low.
    Classes like Bard dragoon and Samurai can outdps summoners by 600 dps
    I will actually back you on this because I'd heard the same from other people I knew were logging. (Except for the refusing to run with them part)

    That said... the Utility was just updated so we'll have to see.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    Ariomi's Avatar
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    Jun 2017
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    184
    Character
    Ariyala Amaterasu
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverquick View Post
    I will actually back you on this because I'd heard the same from other people I knew were logging. (Except for the refusing to run with them part)

    That said... the Utility was just updated so we'll have to see.
    While I really like contagion/radiant shield being raid wide dps increases... Contagion needs a little work imo. I would like if Radiant was atleast 3% increase to match like foe req... but it does potency... so I'm ok with it. Contagion doesn't last long enough and it's infuriating with how long Garuda takes to cast it sometimes.

    Contagion should last as long as dreadwyrm trance, but I would kill for it to last 20 seconds. (If you try to contagion before you summon Bahamut, you will rarely be able to fit both ahk morns inside the window.)
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Exterium's Avatar
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    Jun 2017
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    32
    Character
    Kira Rashik
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 97
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariomi View Post
    Classes like Bard dragoon and Samurai can outdps summoners by 600 dps
    ??????????????????????????

    Where have you seen bards hitting as hard as samurai? SMN can in fact outdps bards by 500 or 600 dps, BRD keeps the spot because it gives around 600 DPS to a full raid with all of its buffs, and also, because it solves all the "I'm out of mana" SMN QQ.
    (5)
    Last edited by Exterium; 06-23-2017 at 05:00 AM.

  5. #5
    Player
    Ariomi's Avatar
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    Jun 2017
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    184
    Character
    Ariyala Amaterasu
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Exterium View Post
    ??????????????????????????

    Where have you seen bards hitting as hard as samurai? SMN can in fact outdps bards by 500 or 600 dps, BRD keeps the spot because it gives around 600 DPS to a full raid with all of its buffs, and also, because it solves all the "I'm out of mana" SMN QQ.
    No class hits as hard as samurai, although I have been made well aware of bards being able to hit for 25k. Bard's dots also outperform Summoner's. Look at Caustic Bite and Stormbite. 5 and 15 potency per tick higher then both of summoner's dots but bard's get 120 potency on the application.
    (5)

  6. #6
    Player
    Exterium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    32
    Character
    Kira Rashik
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 97
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariomi View Post
    No class hits as hard as samurai, although I have been made well aware of bards being able to hit for 25k. Bard's dots also outperform Summoner's. Look at Caustic Bite and Stormbite. 5 and 15 potency per tick higher then both of summoner's dots but bard's get 120 potency on the application.
    You "may" hit for 25k if all planets line up and you get a direct hit crit barraged refulgent arrow while under Raging Strikes, that may not happen ever in a 2 hour raid, in fact, I've only seen this ONCE in all my SB bard playtime.

    You never reapply your dots, they get refreshed with a 100 potency weaponskill.

    I don't talk about what I think, I talk about the data we have at this point, and SMN, besides what this forum seems to think, hits way harder than BRD, at the same lvl as a BLM and harder than a RDM.

    EDIT: You seem to be forgetting your third dot, you, and every summoner, your pet is essentially a 110 potency dot with utility.
    (4)
    Last edited by Exterium; 06-23-2017 at 05:38 AM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Ariomi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    184
    Character
    Ariyala Amaterasu
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Exterium View Post
    I don't talk about what I think, I talk about the data we have at this point, and SMN, besides what this forums seems to think, hits way harder than BRD, at the same lvl as a BLM and harder than a RDM.
    And as far as I've seen, this just isn't true. I've been in parties, I've seen people's dps. I have been in. Nothing Summoner has can hit for 25k and I did stone sky sea over and over and over until I got an ahk morn direct hit crit under the effect of contagion that boosts it's damage. I also tweaked my smn rotation right around 30 times and yet when I encounter a bard, they do massively more dps.


    Smn and Bard dots work almost identical, except they are reversed. Bard hard casts dots then keeps them up. Summoner doesn't have to hard cast their dots until they run out three times. The difference? Bard get's 120 potency when they first cast them on both dots, then 100 potency when they need to refresh them. Summoner's dot's don't get any potency added when we refresh them unless we hard cast Miasma 3.
    (5)

  8. #8
    Player
    Exterium's Avatar
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    Jun 2017
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    32
    Character
    Kira Rashik
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 97
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariomi View Post
    snip
    This is like talking to a wall...

    It doesn't matter how big the number is, it doesn't matter AT ALL, what matters is the overall DPS, judging damage by "big dick hits" is just plain stupid.

    How are BRD dots better than SMN dots? you have a pet that does the same a dot does, and adds 15 secs of magic vulnerability every minute, and it is a 110 potency dot, one hundred and ten, your pet alone is doing more dps than both BRD dots to a boss.
    (8)

  9. #9
    Player
    Ariomi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    184
    Character
    Ariyala Amaterasu
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Exterium View Post
    This is like talking to a wall...
    I could say the same thing to you. But you have no idea what you are talking about.

    And I've looked at overall dps. A bard's dots have no cast time. Miasma 3 has a cast time. Bard's dots have more potency overall 570 + 670 compared to Summoner's 400 and 450. Your dot's tick harder (100 potency vs Summoner's 80). Bard's dots are so strong they still outdamage Summoner's dots if I use shadow flare.

    Summoner's strongest spammable spell is Ruin 3. It is 150 potency and we can cast it 9 times before we run out of mana. It is the same potency as Heavy shot. How many times can you use heavy shot before you are out of tp? (Just making a point. I'm well aware of how dreadwyrm works.)

    Oh and Refulgent Arrow and Ruin 4 work almost the exact same way except Summoner's get a 15% chance to use ruin 4 which does 200 potency while bard gets a 20% chance to do 300 potency.

    With Barrage and Emp arrow you get 690 potency attack every 90 seconds that can crit for all three strikes. You can use this immediately at the start of a fight. Summoner can't even use ahk morn's 680 potency until we have built up all the aetherflow (takes two minutes)

    Pitch perfect even does more damage then death flare does at 3 stacks. Pitch perfect 420 potency vs Deathflare's 400. Bard arguably even beats summoner's Aoe attacks as Summoner has no spammable Aoe move. Every Aoe Summoner has is either on a minute cooldown (Shadowflare, Aetherflow, Radiant Shield Technically since it can hit more then one add) Two Minute cooldown (Ahk morn) or three minute cooldown* (Enkindle). So tell me again... How does a bard with no cast times, stronger dots, higher mobility and stronger attacks not outdps summoner in almost every way?
    (2)
    Last edited by Ariomi; 06-23-2017 at 08:27 PM.

  10. #10
    Player
    Silverquick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    893
    Character
    Silverquick Fox
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariomi View Post
    I've run into groups who won't run with smn cause their dps is too low.
    Classes like Bard dragoon and Samurai can outdps summoners by 600 dps
    As I'd said,

    You are not the only one who is seeing this. I am seeing it from other quarters as well. And obviously from the thread linked on the last page... its not just a couple of people noticing the fall off.
    (0)