The Ifrit Fight is Dangerous to the Community.

[Gramul]

What I am suggesting in no way changes the original difficulty of the encounter. It also does not minimize the value of the Ifrit drops, either.

What I am trying to shoot for is a win/win situation for everyone, rather than a win/lose situation (which is the worst kind of situation IMO, compared to a lose/lose, because everybody's equal in win/win, and lose/lose)

And we're saying that not everyone should have access to everything without the proper work required to achieve it.

Equality isn't always equal and it certainly isn't always fair.

[SilvertearRen]

And we're saying that not everyone should have access to everything without the proper work required to achieve it.

Equality isn't always equal and it certainly isn't always fair.

And how is having a slightly lower difficulty option for Ifrit without the Ifrit loot drops, detrimental? It offers less-hardy adventurers the option to practice for the real thing without actually getting stressed out every time. I mean, look at baseball.

How do you get to the Playoffs? You practice, you practice, you practice. You condition yourself for the big challenge: The World Series. You work your way to that by defeating adversity, but you cannot defeat adversity if you do not practice.

So the point of the scaling difficulty option is intended to offer players the ability to practice for the fight without being punished heavily for their errors. Some people do not learn Karate if you break their bones every time they spar with you.

No, you want to able to cakewalk Ifrit (Hyper).

Currently, people have found a strategy that works (I'm not talking about 'Ugh, throw a lancer at it.')

Dodge the AoE traps, the tackle/charges, mitigate damage, and you'll survive, and win.

Now all you gotta do is trying and survive the low drop rate, and the 'Melee only gets the mage weapons' and 'Mage only gets the melee weapons'.

>_>;

lol. I understand what you're trying to say. And that's the point of the lower difficulty fights. I don't want to use the lower difficulty fights as a badge of honor (the mere fact that they're reduced in difficulty from the original Hyper fight essentially negates it), but as a training regimen.

It would make things more enjoyable if I could learn the Ifrit fight without being two-shotted every time.

[whoopeeragon]

Some people do not learn Karate if you break their bones every time they spar with you.

But should a white-belt instantly face off against a black-belt without any sort of preparation against the other belt colours? Same logic, darling, same logic.

[SilvertearRen]

But should a white-belt instantly face off against a black-belt without any sort of preparation against the other belt colours? Same logic, darling, same logic.

And that same logic could also be applied to the scaling-difficulty-option feature, too. You train as a white belt, then as a red belt, then finally as a black belt first dan, before you can beat a Third Dan.

It's not that difficult to comprehend. 1-Star Ifrit would be the equivalent to a Red Belt, while 2 Star would be the Black Belt 1st Dan, and 3 Star Ifrit would be Black Belt 3rd Dan.

[grandm]

And that same logic could also be applied to the scaling-difficulty-option feature, too. You train as a white belt, then as a red belt, then finally as a black belt first dan, before you can beat a Third Dan.

It's not that difficult to comprehend. 1-Star Ifrit would be the equivalent to a Red Belt, while 2 Star would be the Black Belt 1st Dan, and 3 Star Ifrit would be Black Belt 3rd Dan.

but ifrit is the black belt. go beat some sheep, then dodos then goats, and ifrit easy, then do some beastmen camps and raptors and nm's and when you are ready go take on that black belt ifrit

[whoopeeragon]

And that same logic could also be applied to the scaling-difficulty-option feature, too. You train as a white belt, then as a red belt, then finally as a black belt first dan, before you can beat a Third Dan.

It's not that difficult to comprehend. 1-Star Ifrit would be the equivalent to a Red Belt, while 2 Star would be the Black Belt 1st Dan, and 3 Star Ifrit would be Black Belt 3rd Dan.

Exactly. But what you're asking is for the black belt to stoop down to the level of the red belts, or even lower. The black belt is centred AROUND the black belt's difficulty; there is no point is raising or shifting the ability when its already locked in place as such. Why would you do that? There's no point!

Why must you train on a black belt that must lower itself to your level? Why can't you go and look for opponents of your own level to compete and practice against? Why are tournaments always separated according to skill level? What's stopping a black belt from entering a division for white belts, while promising to go easy? Why?

Because he's already initially like that. Removing that aspect is removing any point and sense of achievement in going for a primal which is almost like a god in this game. It would shatter any sense of accomplishment, and downplay all hard work that other people have put into it.

People will just go, "Oh look, I killed the black belt while I'm a white. Yay, party!" and don't bother to go on anymore. Is that the right mentality to have in such a game? No.

[SirOleas]

And how is having a slightly lower difficulty option for Ifrit without the Ifrit loot drops, detrimental? It offers less-hardy adventurers the option to practice for the real thing without actually getting stressed out every time. I mean, look at baseball.

How do you get to the Playoffs? You practice, you practice, you practice. You condition yourself for the big challenge: The World Series. You work your way to that by defeating adversity, but you cannot defeat adversity if you do not practice.

So the point of the scaling difficulty option is intended to offer players the ability to practice for the fight without being punished heavily for their errors. Some people do not learn Karate if you break their bones every time they spar with you.



lol. I understand what you're trying to say. And that's the point of the lower difficulty fights. I don't want to use the lower difficulty fights as a badge of honor (the mere fact that they're reduced in difficulty from the original Hyper fight essentially negates it), but as a training regimen.

Ok, now for a serious comment/question.

Why the hell does this matter?
You can do the same.exact.thing. practicing on hard mode Ifrit, and when you finally do win, you can have drops. Why do you need a practice Ifrit that supplies you with nothing, not even the knowledge of how to beat the HARDER Ifrit.

There's no point. Seriously, there just isn't.

[SilvertearRen]

Ok, now for a serious comment/question.

Why the hell does this matter?
You can do the same.exact.thing. practicing on hard mode Ifrit, and when you finally do win, you can have drops. Why do you need a practice Ifrit that supplies you with nothing, not even the knowledge of how to beat the HARDER Ifrit.

There's no point. Seriously, there just isn't.

Because if we can't get past 50%, how are we supposed to learn the second half of the fight? By repeatedly dying as we finally get him to 45%, 40%, etc, etc.... How many hours are you expecting me to put in on the highest-tier difficulty, when it would save more time and stress by having it start with the lower tier and then moving up through the middle tier to the final tier?

You don't learn Calculus before you learn basic Addition and Subtraction.

Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida
I ask that you please do not make posts that can be seen as personal attacks. I understand the frustration that players may feel, but please understand that we developers are humans too. There is a limit to how much we can do and how much criticism we can take.
We will continue to work on updates as best as we can, so I please ask that you understand where we are coming from and use the forums appropriately


wow this quote.. was this in jp forums...... you guys are sad.

If anything I'm saying is a "personal attack", feel free to point them out - I'm simply seeing a lot of rigid mentalities on the forums that do not have the ability to consider and accept the concept of a multiple-difficulty-level option for endgame content as a means of providing a learning curve for those who have limited time and would like a low-stress experience.

Note that I said "concept", not "in practice"...

[Alerith]

Because if we can't get past 50%, how are we supposed to learn the second half of the fight? By repeatedly dying as we finally get him to 45%, 40%, etc, etc.... How many hours are you expecting me to put in on the highest-tier difficulty, when it would save more time and stress by having it start with the lower tier and then moving up through the middle tier to the final tier?

You don't learn Calculus before you learn basic Addition and Subtraction.



If anything I'm saying is a "personal attack", feel free to point them out - I'm simply seeing a lot of rigid mentalities on the forums that do not have the ability to consider and accept the concept of a multiple-difficulty-level option for endgame content as a means of providing a learning curve for those who have limited time and would like a low-stress experience.

Note that I said "concept", not "in practice"...

Fighting a weaker Ifrit is not going to prepare you for the actual fight.

If Ifrit deals less damage with Hellfire on your weaker version, then you don't get the experience of having to cure everyone before they eat another attack. You don't deal with the real situations that heavily damaging attacks will bring.

So you beat one star Ifrit. That isn't going to teach you squat.

[SilvertearRen]

Fighting a weaker Ifrit is not going to prepare you for the actual fight.

If Ifrit deals less damage with Hellfire on your weaker version, then you don't get the experience of having to cure everyone before they eat another attack. You don't deal with the real situations that heavily damaging attacks will bring.

So you beat one star Ifrit. That isn't going to teach you squat.

Actually, it can. Stress actually makes it harder for me to memorize things.

EG content should not be easy, is it ever in any game? No spoon feeding.

Am I asking to be spoon-fed the highest-difficulty fight? No. I'm simply asking for a learning curve in the fight that will allow me to memorize the circumstances without being stressed so much. When I was doing Dzemael Darkhold, sometimes, I would forget where I was supposed to stand when fighting the Ogre. Behind? To the side? In front? Derp?

Seriously. I hate it when people think everybody has a perfect memory and has the ability to be just as skilled as they are...