SB Bard Changes: Good or Bad? Thoughts?

[Furious]

It's just so funny to see "Bring back my cast timers!" compared to the exact opposite at the launch of HW! xD

It's somewhat expected; those of us who stopped playing bard with the HW fiasco are coming back in flocks, while those who stayed with it and are used to magebard take longer to adjust. People saying "I don't even use the mobility, I just stand there anyway, I find myself recasting abilities thinking they were cancelled by movement"; none of these are issues with the current iteration of the class, but issues with acclimating to change. It'll come with time.

Complaints about numbers are neither here nor there; until ACT works again we don't really know how they stack up. Mechanically bard works really nicely now and is better than the ARR iteration in my opinion.

[HyoMinPark]

"I don't even use the mobility, I just stand there anyway, I find myself recasting abilities thinking they were cancelled by movement"; none of these are issues with the current iteration of the class, but issues with acclimating to change. It'll come with time.

Going to respond to this, since it's a paraphase of a sentence in my post: The thinking I'm still interrupting casts when I move is just me needing to adjust to not having them. However, even before I got to Heavensward, back when I was 50 BRD or lower, I never moved around much. I would move to dodge AOEs, position myself closer to a mob if necessary (like for Quick Nock or Repelling Shot), reposition if the tank seemed to be unable to make up their mind which way to face the boss, etc., but I never moved around constantly like some of the BRDs I see. I stayed in one spot and only moved if I had to, not move just because I could. So my standing still isn't me needing to adjust from HW Bard--that's just how I've always played.

Anecdotal, of course, but I do know a few bards who play like I've always played: only moving when we had to, not moving just because we could.

It's actually similar to how archery is in real life, if you think about it. When you're standing still, you're able to put more power behind your arrow when you draw it back, as opposed to if you're moving. I know FFXIV isn't real life, but the cast times just always gave me the illusion of really drawing that arrow back, and firing it.

[Crux]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for fixing bard. It plays so much better now! I have played bard since launch and stuck with it to see how the changes were. I love the changes!

[EdwinLi]

If I have to compare Bard it is basically back to 2.0 gameplay but with a slight adjustment to managing Songs.

[Katra]

Although I'm only in the mid-60s with BRD at the moment, I am really enjoying the change to playstyle. It feels far, far better than the HW iteration to me. My only problems so far is fighting muscle memory. I thought I was fine until the level 61 dungeon, then during some of the fights it felt like my fingers took over and was trying to use old skills. The level 63 dungeon felt more comfortable as I was settling in to more of a groove.

It took them the length of an entire expansion, Heavensward, but it feels like they have BRD back on the right track.

[KaiSunstrider]

Im absolutely in love with the current iteration of bard. There is a ton of things going on, and when you do it correctly, it feels quite rewarding. I can see this class being incredibly gear dependent due to the song mechanics. My only major concerns are that none of the party buffs apply to ourselves and Foe req seems to last 12 seconds or less and 3% for 10 secs with around 1.5-2 min mana regen times just feels subpar.

[Furious]

Going to respond to this, since it's a paraphase of a sentence in my post: The thinking I'm still interrupting casts when I move is just me needing to adjust to not having them. However, even before I got to Heavensward, back when I was 50 BRD or lower, I never moved around much. I would move to dodge AOEs, position myself closer to a mob if necessary (like for Quick Nock or Repelling Shot), reposition if the tank seemed to be unable to make up their mind which way to face the boss, etc., but I never moved around constantly like some of the BRDs I see. I stayed in one spot and only moved if I had to, not move just because I could. So my standing still isn't me needing to adjust from HW Bard--that's just how I've always played.

Anecdotal, of course, but I do know a few bards who play like I've always played: only moving when we had to, not moving just because we could.

It's actually similar to how archery is in real life, if you think about it. When you're standing still, you're able to put more power behind your arrow when you draw it back, as opposed to if you're moving. I know FFXIV isn't real life, but the cast times just always gave me the illusion of really drawing that arrow back, and firing it.

I don't think anyone moves just because they can, but pre-emptively moving means you are already moving out of an AoE you know is coming before it starts being cast.

As a direct analogy, pre-moving is like using the spell queue, while standing still and moving in reaction is like using a macro. Because you are already moving when the aoe starts being cast, you have the most possible time to get out of the aoe, while if you move only in response to the AoE, there is an overhead of atleast (ms it took you to notice the aoe + ms of your latency). There isn't a benefit to not moving when you don't have cast times.

As for your analogy to real world archery, I don't really do RP so I'm not interested in much more than how the mechanic feels to use in-game. Being forced to stand still is quantifiably less powerful than being able to move while doing the same thing.

[HyoMinPark]

I don't think anyone moves just because they can, but pre-emptively moving means you are already moving out of an AoE you know is coming before it starts being cast.

We're on different data centers, so perhaps you don't encounter this on yours, but on mine, I frequently see many bards just running back and forth, or in circles, around mobs or an arena, not to preemptively dodge, but just because they can move. So, yes, there are bards out there who flail around just because they can. I've encountered even more since Early Access.

There also is not a benefit to just moving around in circles around a boss just because you can either. The bards that remained bards after the Heavensward changes, all the good ones mastered how to stutter-step, and where to preemptively move before AOE casts just like you are saying we can do so now with no cast times.

As for the power of bards now: we lost mobility in Heavenward, and in turned gained an immense amount of personal DPS. With the Stormblood changes, we traded personal DPS for mobility. SE will not allow us to have both, and for me personally, I would rather stand still and feel stronger than have the ability to freely move and feel significantly weaker. This is my opinion though, and I'm already aware it's an unpopular one.

[Bardo]

I just solo'd a level 50 Champion fate as an under-geared level 52 Bard.
So for me, the Bard changes in SB have been fantastic.
Bowmage actually made me quit the game.
Why? Because I chose Bard in ARR specifically because it DIDN'T play like a mage.

For the players lamenting the changes, I can't help but wonder...
If you prefer the "stand still, big burst" gameplay, why not simply play Blm/Smn/Rdm?
Movement made the Bard unique, and I'm really glad they decided to bring it back.

Yes, our DPS probably took a hit (even though a direct crit Barrage Refulgent Arrow does an absolute comical amount of damage).
Yes, it feels "weird"; thematically, that Ballad/Paeon/Minuet are basically now just part of the rotation, and Refresh/Tactician are more "shouts" than songs.
But you simply cannot deny that being able to use Ballad+Foe's+Refresh+Tactician all at the same time gives Bard more group support than we have ever had in FFXIV.
Add in Palisade and Minne (incredibly powerful tank buffs), and the fact that all our group damage buffs (2% crit, 3% damage, 15% direct hit) affect all dps equally (regardless of magic vs physical damage)?
Who wouldn't want a BRD or MCH in their group right now?

[Recklessfun]

Since I haven't got to raid and since I haven't been playing long I was curious... Do groups even really ask for songs anymore? I read that a couple ppl were actually insulted when bards put up songs like they didn't know what they were doing or something like that. And I'm not even sure where songs go into the brd rotation since these changes threw me off from the one I was almost getting down a couple weeks ago before the changes. Sorry if my questions or comments might sound slightly idiotic I'm just trying to understand and be a good brd.