SB Bard Changes: Good or Bad? Thoughts?

[Furious]

It does feel extremelly weak while leveling.

I'm kinda ok with the brd damage on long encounters (very long in fact), but in short combats/leveling, it feels very very very weak compared to anything else I've been with.

AA hits for 1k, usually less, both dots at the same time hit for around 1400, empyreal arrow hits for a bit more than 2k, I've seen direct hit crit sidewinders not even reaching 5k, the same with our execute, hitting for just a bit more than 2k.

The biggest hit we can land is pitch perfect, and I've seen a lot of encounters where it just won't get 3 charges (though I ussualy use it on 2 so I don't waste a possible 4th charge), that means more than 90 seconds without a big pitch perfect.

Throwing a lot of shit to the enemy doesn't mean good damage, I won't argue that it's fun to play, I enjoy the gameplay, but I do feel at the same time that I'm pretty weak.

I'm not going to claim that you're wrong, because I don't have data on the damage I'm doing and neither do you since ACT is still broken.

I am going to say that I've tanked 90% of the PotD I have done from 50 to 60 that didn't have an actual tank in them, and definitely the bosses.

You say "throwing a lot of shit to the enemy doesn't mean good damage"; I'm going to say "neither does doing a big hit every now and then". Quantity and quality are both equally valid means of reaching the same sum. Stop worrying about it until you actually have the numbers in front of you.

However, there are two things I would say:
1. If you feel you are being outdamaged by a war and a whm you might also look into what you are doing wrong.
2. Stop looking for giant numbers on a class that revolves around ogcd resets.
3. Don't expect to be top dps as bard, when the class has so many buffs for the entire group.

[SaitoHikari]

-snip-

Sounds like a problem with your gear and how you approach fights rather than a problem with the class. Although I just looked up your Lodestone and your gear is better than mine on account of you being 3 levels above me (and past the MSQ hurdle too), so it's most likely the approach, as for some reason I'm getting better results than you are (or I'm a bit more attuned to Bard as I'm used to raiding as one).

You should be throwing up Windbite and Venomous Bite BEFORE activating your songs, I see the vast majority of Bards doing the opposite instead, which is really bad. Song first is pointless because that means you're spending the first 5 seconds likely not getting any bonuses.

[Exterium]

Sounds like a problem with your gear and how you approach fights rather than a problem with the class. Although I just looked up your Lodestone and your gear is better than mine on account of you being 3 levels above me (and past the MSQ hurdle too), so it's most likely the approach, as for some reason I'm getting better results than you are (or I'm a bit more attuned to Bard as I'm used to raiding as one).

You should be throwing up Windbite and Venomous Bite BEFORE activating your songs, I see the vast majority of Bards doing the opposite instead, which is really bad. Song first is pointless because that means you're spending the first 5 seconds likely not getting any bonuses.

Straight shot, storm bite, bloodletter, caustic bite, mage's balad, heavy shot, barrage + empyreal, heavy shot, sidewinder, if you have any suggestions, go ahead.

1. If you feel you are being outdamaged by a war and a whm you might also look into what you are doing wrong.
2. Stop looking for giant numbers on a class that revolves around ogcd resets.
3. Don't expect to be top dps as bard, when the class has so many buffs for the entire group.

1. Answered above.
2. It revolves around ogcd resets every 90 seconds during 30 seconds, during another 30 you are just hitting faster (with luck), and during another 30 you may get a hit.
3. I don't, I've been playing ranged since HW came out, both BRD and MCH, edit: also, the buffs part is fun, we don't even buff ourselves with anything, thus making the solo experience even worse.

[Furious]

..................

Sounds like a problem with your gear and how you approach fights rather than a problem with the class. Although I just looked up your Lodestone and your gear is better than mine on account of you being 3 levels above me (and past the MSQ hurdle too), so it's most likely the approach, as for some reason I'm getting better results than you are (or I'm a bit more attuned to Bard as I'm used to raiding as one).

You should be throwing up Windbite and Venomous Bite BEFORE activating your songs, I see the vast majority of Bards doing the opposite instead, which is really bad. Song first is pointless because that means you're spending the first 5 seconds likely not getting any bonuses.

It's not "reaaaally bad". It's not right while solo. While with others, they miss out on 2% crit while you don't have a song.

Going song > dot > dot means you get miss out on 3 proc chances out of 20 on the first song of the fight if you didn't have a song up already, and it means your dots start later which matters if the fight lasts somewhere in the period of time where you didn't have to refresh them once extra for applying them first, but it also means that your group misses out on 3 gcds of 2% flat crit chance.

It's also very much unlikely to be the main cause of his problems in the scheme of things.

[SaitoHikari]

Speaking as a Bard that only began playing after HW release and never got to experience ARR Bard, going into SB was a pretty jarring experience for me. But after practicing a bit in random dungeons, I feel that I have a good grasp on the new Bard even though I'm still missing all skills from 64+.

HW Bard prioritized proper positioning and planning around 90 second burst damage windows and nuking down mob packs with Rain of Death procs.

SB Bard, however, prioritizes quicker reflexes and planning out your moves 60 seconds in advance. It's a different kind of tactical thinking, but it's still Bard at its core. An example of this is a Saint Mocianne's Arboretum run I had yesterday - the tank elected to do the honeycomb skip method, so I decided to go into Army's Paeon mode and throw Windbite on everything possible before dotting the last honeycomb and swapping into Wanderer's Minuet mode. I was immediately rewarded with seven back to back fully charged Pitch Perfects to burn it to the ground.

(On a side note, I also ended up in an Antitower in progress with a lone Red Mage who had the rest of the party ditch him before the dungeon properly began. I proceeded to duo with him all the way to the first boss successfully before a White Mage joined us, and then I successfully tanked everything all the way past the second boss before a tank joined us for the final leg. Warden's Paean is good utility in that dungeon for the first leg on account of blocking the Paralysis and the Concussion, and I am actually really sad that Paean got nerfed, but it's understandable why the devs did it.)

I'd argue we're actually way overtuned at the moment, in every dungeon/24 man alliance I've been in ever since SB release, I was far and away the top DPS (and I've literally had to use Tactician/MP Refresh early in numerous occasions already to avoid taking aggro). SB Bard also gets access to better AoE in earlier levels - and THIS part is something I expect nerfs for, as I ended up in a Tam Tara normal mode for leveling roulette yesterday and found I had access to Invigorate and Tactician too (whereas SB Bard had a higher Quick Nock TP cost and only Invigorate). I was able to spam Quick Nock for one minute straight before running out of TP as a result, which is the kind of sustained mobbing potential most other classes can't even touch until level 40+, if ever. The dungeon ended in 16 minutes, even with the healer being new. A Bard/Machinist duo can easily speedrun all of the earlier dungeons far, FAR faster than any other class, especially considering the two could rotate Tacticians for even better sustain (and also enabling Warriors to use Overpower more).

So far, while it does feel like our AoE burst nuke potential got hugely nerfed, our sustain more than makes up for it, and my single target damage is far more consistent if not even higher than it was in HW. Remember that auto attacks make up a significant chunk of damage in a single target environment, not to mention that Direct Hit by itself feels like it essentially cancels out the loss of damage from old Minuet.

[Shurrikhan]

I'd argue we're actually way overtuned at the moment, in every dungeon/24 man alliance I've been in ever since SB release, I was far and away the top DPS (and I've literally had to use Tactician/MP Refresh early in numerous occasions already to avoid taking aggro). SB Bard also gets access to better AoE in earlier levels...

The issue is that Stormblood seems to have been released with little to no concern for balanced growth of power across jobs. Some capacities are gimped at certain level ranges for certain jobs only to then excel at other ranges. Granted, we saw this slightly with Heavensward's release, too, but not nearly to such a degree.

[CaelumMajeir]

Other than the change having to do with mostly being stationary due to cast times, I can't say I'm a fan of the changes for Bard. At all. Even if people vouch for them, I just don't. It's an opinion.

[Noell_Merlose]

I like Bard changes in Stormblood. The only two things I would like to change is to have an additional dot timer on our song UI as well as a sound notice nearing the end of a song.

[xNewbx]

I played Bard and only bard in HW , and I have to say. Did you guys really think you're going to get a ton of utility and still maintain the old damage you had? Keep dreaming lol.
It's fun to play , but the damage took a big hit. You're a support dps.

[ExiaQuanta]

I played Bard and only bard in HW , and I have to say. Did you guys really think you're going to get a ton of utility and still maintain the old damage you had? Keep dreaming lol.
It's fun to play , but the damage took a big hit. You're a support dps.

Yeah, the damage nerf is probably there to keep some form of balance. Unconditional damage with mobility and at a safe range is pretty OP. Just like when 2.0 first launched. 2 Tanks, 3 Bards, 1 Dragoon, and 2 healers were meta at one point LOL.