Summoner and the upcoming changes

[Spellbinder]

1. I am lvl 65 right now. I can count the times my Titan egi died on me on one Hand. Seriously, what's wrong with you guys complaining about this? Summoner was in soloplay completely overpowered with an Egi that tanked all the Mobs and never died! As a SMN you were able to do dungeons solo, which no class (except warrior maybe) was able to. That was not working as intended und thus had to be adressed. All SE did, was to bring all DPS to equal terms.

After seeing my friend playing red mage crit with vercure for over 8,000 hp then follow up with a dual casted cure, I fail to see how all DPS are equal in ability to solo content. I still stand by the opinion that they either modify physick to scale with intelligence for summoners like red mage and their vercure, or replace physick with something similar to sustain for summoner.

[CecMiller]

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I guess SMN was able to tank entire dungeons and solo them with just titan egi but how is it that only a warrior could do the same? These would have to be oddly specific dungeons. What dungeons are we talking about here? I assure you a scholar or other healers can do the same. But how is this even a talking point? Is this really even an issue? It seems like the most pointless issue and one that doesn't even deserve attention. Spellbinder has a great comment regarding this tho.

And yes, garuda can die. I've played a lot of summoner in HW and in SB - Heck it was my main for the creator savage content - and I've had garuda die maybe 3 to 5 times. Garuda dies a lot in fates usually. Further, I have no idea what this mass pulls with summoner is. I thought this was only a dungeon thing? Do people mass pull mobs and AOE and level that way? Seems incredibly inefficient. If you're mass-pulling in SB fates, the only thing you'll accomplish without a healer is killing yourself really fast.

Further, as a summoner main, I can't see how Bahamut adds to the complexity of the class. You just get to deathflare 2x more with bahamut than with the usual dreadwyrm trance. I can see how the class looks complex if you just recently got acquainted with summoner.

As to your last point: the meta doesn't matter atm. There is no set meta and it shouldn't really be relevant at the levelling stage. That said, I don't see the point in using ifrit whilst levelling for a physical damage buff. Garuda seems to be the superior option considering most of our damage is magic and killing the mob faster is usually what matters. With my gear/damage, I just rip hate off my titan egi so there is no point in using that summon.

Just to add on my experience of summoner so far. Level 60 is significantly weaker in comparison to HW summoner. You lose 1 dot, 50 potency on Ruin 3, Deathflare nerf + Spur being removed. I'll have to wait until 70 to add my thoughts on it. But so far, my damage has been fine considering i'm best in slot. That said, I have enjoyed red mage (this class is busted in POTD - 8 min run with good pomanders) and black mage significantly more so far.

Further, from what I've seen, its the casual summoner players or those new to the class that are enjoying the class (which is great!) more so than the vets who have played the class through stormblood (which isn't as great). Every savage raider I've talked to that has played summoner in savage raids hates the changes: the main complaint being that it looks boring. I do know that my parses will be nowhere as good at 60 as they were back in HW disregarding the nerfs to damage buffing abilities (most were removed/class class restricted). If numbers are low for summoner they'll hopefully be tweaked. The main concern that seems to be coming from a lot of HW SMN raid veterans is that the class is boring with the changes made to it or that some of the changes are clunky. I'll have to level RDM, BLM and SMN to 70 though to properly compare with ACT.

[Neela]

I am a smn raider as well and I don't think it's boring - please don't put your opinion on others in general - there are 2 other smn in my fc both are raiding as well just one of us changed to RDM what makes 2 out of 3 still enjoy the cls. .___.

the meta doesn't matter atm. There is no set meta and it shouldn't really be relevant at the levelling stage.

though I agree at this point it's way to early to talk but raid meta without comparison of grp-synergy and parsing on hardfacts.

Edit: Oh lol you were talking bout meta in usin egis - my bad but still opinion bout raid meta stays ^^

[Feves]

As soon as I reach level 70 on SMN I'm switching my main to Black Mage or Red Mage. This is just extremely clunky to play and playing with Bahamut in PvP I fail to see how that's going to make it any more exciting. I can get that casual players might enjoy it but trying to get skills like Devotion and Contagion to go off when you want them for optimal DPS is just extremely frustrating, nine times out of ten they won't go off. Rouse and Enkindle are completely out of sync now, you don't even have to pay attention to your DoTs anymore. I really enjoyed how level 60 SMN played and how fluid it was, this is just a complete mess and yawn inducing in primal fights. I had more fun playing a level 50 RDM on a dummy than I have had at any moment playing SMN in the expansion.

I've mained SMN throughout all 3 Alexander Savage modes and there was never a dull moment. Seeing how boring and clunky this is I'm definitely not looking forward to raid in Omega Savage with the Summoner job.

[TheLenrir]

If I was going to play SMN at this point, it would be in PVP, strangely plays miles better in PVP than in PVE, which is amusing considering I thought the total opposite during Heavensward. But yeah, I tried to like it, I tried to adjust to it, but now that I am 69 I think I can safely tell myself that this is just a throwback to the 2.0 era, where I am back to ruin spamming for the rest of time since well timed tri-disaster means you generally don't find yourself manually placing the DoTs back on, with the 'parlour trick' deathflare & bahamut in between. What with Shadow Flare being like it is and using swiftcast merely to summon my pet back after it died for the 3rd time in a boss fight? (I'm looking at you final boss in the lv 67 dungeon), yeah screw that.

But hey, at least we got Lucid dream right? Because that's what I want to be in right now, a dream.

[CecMiller]

I am a smn raider as well and I don't think it's boring - please don't put your opinion on others in general - there are 2 other smn in my fc both are raiding as well just one of us changed to RDM what makes 2 out of 3 still enjoy the cls. .___.

though I agree at this point it's way to early to talk but raid meta without comparison of grp-synergy and parsing on hardfacts.

Edit: Oh lol you were talking bout meta in usin egis - my bad but still opinion bout raid meta stays ^^

When I was talking about savage raiding summoners, I'm talking about those who pushed the dps to the highest possible: Those who had orange/purple parses on fflogs. Besides, I don't think you've tried the new summoner have you? I'm saying the SB version is pretty boring so far! The vast majority of those commenting here that played summoner in HW are saying that the new summoner is pretty boring as the above 2 responses and the other comments in the thread show.

Anyways, I do have to add. PVP summoner is great

[Writer]

From a levelling Summoner, changes I would like to see:

Okay, now that Rescue is in the game, I'd like a new pet skill - Leash. Which is essentially Rescue but strictly for our pets.

Miasma, Bio, and Bane... I feel these three skills are more for Scholar than Summoner TBH. They are "too support". Minimal DPS, minimal damage. Instead I would have them replaced with say - Armor break, Poison Touch, and Poison Breath via a trait just for Summoners (Scholar does has traits that Summoner doesn't so exclusive traits between the two is possible). These would give more damage, lower DoT numbers, and Poison Breath would not be dependent on Armor and Poison to do an AOE just Aethflow. It would be better for DPS and make it feel less like a support class.

[Writer]

Cont.

A new version of Sustain that's like Physick except it is empowered by Intelligence and heals both your pet and yourself at the same time, and can only be used on your pet and yourself. A Summoner trait would replace Physick with it (and Scholar's would get a Physick II which is a stronger heal).

* Note I think these kind of changes should happen for 30 and be Job only skills. It would differentiate Scholar and Summoner more.

[Leigaon]

I forgot to mention, the pets seems to be a lot more responsive now and they fixed the bug where "if you hit enkidle and the mob dies before the egi does its attack", the timer of enkidle now is NOT on cooldown, that's great ^^. (it's as if you never pushed the button)

That's what I came here to look for, I'm glad to know that not only are you having fun with the new pets but the enkindle part and responsiveness of the pets is better. So..I can remove the macro where I ask the move to activate 50 times now? Things like Enkindle and other moves I'd have to just hit over and over if they didn't activate.

I just started to re-do my hotbars and macros for SMN and notice some spaces I need to fill up, so I plan to take this up to 70 now. I'm sad for Sustain but this is way down the list of "things I care about."

Now to adjust these Role skills, but it looks like before 50 it's a bit of a dull time. Garuda still has the knockback..which I wash hoping to see go.

Did some Susano extreme farms today and players seems to hate my Bahamut there because it is too big and players can not see mechanics. Is there any way hide that pet?

Nope! This problem was brought up whenever these egi debates came up and everyone was more than willing to accept that. Now I know what to expect.

[Feves]

Contagion, Enkindle and now Devotion are all still very unresponsive skills. You're gonna still have to press them 50 times to make them go off.

Edit: Actually, looking at them closely Enkindle is a lot more responsive than it used to be, however Contagion and Devotion still need to be spammed to ensure they'll go off.