But it's a sword.

[Fyce]

Welcome to the final fantasy series of games! It's always great to have newcomers. I know it can be confusing to hear a name like that and think of red mage as a pure mage but it's actually always been kind of a hybrid between a classic mage type and a fighter.

Who said it was a pure mage? Not me, that is, because I know what a Red Mage is. Thanks for assuming that I don't, or for your sarcastic answer.

Besides, not being able to auto-attack is such a minor thing... and probably an oversight.

[Duelle]

Who said it was a pure mage? Not me, that is, because I know what a Red Mage is. Thanks for assuming that I don't, or for your sarcastic answer.

Considering you did a callback to the "lol it has mage in the job name" argument, I think the response was warranted.

Besides, not being able to auto-attack is such a minor thing... and probably an oversight.

Actually, you are able to auto-attack. Auto-attack does not remove Dualcast like the tooltip says. That being said, auto-attacks deal tiny damage, and that still leaves the question of use of the sword when not 80/80 (you don't because your DPS then tanks).

[Fyce]

Considering you did a callback to the "lol it has mage in the job name" argument, I think the response was warranted.

I still think that my answer was appropriate considering that the thread is entitled "But it's a sword."

"I have a sword, so my auto-attacks should be powerful!"

Well, no. That's not how a Red Mage works. The main characteristic of a Red Mage is that he can use Black and White magic. Wearing a fancy hat and a sword as a catalyst doesn't make you a swordmaster. Especially if your main stat is INT.

But it's a sword. Yeah, but it's a mage.

Actually, you are able to auto-attack. Auto-attack does not remove Dualcast like the tooltip says. That being said, auto-attacks deal tiny damage, and that still leaves the question of use of the sword when not 80/80 (you don't because your DPS then tanks).

The sword and the crystal are both used as a catalyst for casting magic. Because Red Mage is a mage.

Jack-of-all-trades, master of none is what defines the Red Mage. It already have powerful melee skills. Can't have everything.

[Duelle]

I still think that my answer was appropriate considering that the thread is entitled "But it's a sword."

"I have a sword, so my auto-attacks should be powerful!"

You're mischaracterizing the OP's post. The OP is basically saying he wants the sword to see actual use in combat, hence "poking the enemy between spells". He said nothing about the auto-attacks being powerful.

I brought up the weak auto's to illustrate that by design the job is built to discourage melee when not 80/80. Which I feel is a problem when the job is supposed to be a sword & spell hybrid.

The main characteristic of a Red Mage is that he can use Black and White magic. Wearing a fancy hat and a sword as a catalyst doesn't make you a swordmaster. Especially if your main stat is INT.

The sword is a a main characteristic of RDM, otherwise the job Sage would have never been invented. The job is able to equip swords for the purpose of hitting things with said sword. The catalyst thing was only made up because the devs were looking for something that was a staff but wasn't really a staff.

As for sword mastery, I agree that swordsmanship alone wouldn't carry a RDM, but that's why they have spells. Combining spells with melee swings would not only underline the fact that the job is a hybrid, but also help that RDM close the gap between themselves and a musclehead melee like a fighter.

The INT thing can easily be worked around by allowing melee strikes to scale with it. Dragon Age's Arcane Warrior basically works under that principle (INT to STR scaling). Other examples of hybrids that follow a similar rule are WoW's enhance shaman (spells scale with Agility) and retribution paladin (spell effects prior to Legion scaled with Strength).

The sword and the crystal are both used as a catalyst for casting magic. Because Red Mage is a mage.

And thus you use the "lol it has 'mage' in the name" argument, but worded differently.

Jack-of-all-trades, master of none is what defines the Red Mage.

And if we really were to go by this, RDM would be sent straight to the bench for EX primals and Savage. Which is why the job was rightfully implemented as DPS with some utility.

It already have powerful melee skills. Can't have everything.

You're missing the point. Sword use is restricted to mana being at 80/80, since using it at any other time is basically a DPS loss. The OP, much like myself, wants the sword to see more use. This isn't so much about the raw power of the sword, but how the gameplay outright discourages its use. And that has always been counter to the idea of a RDM, which is why we had the flame wars and name-calling back in FFXI for the same damn reason; instead of having to spam Cure/Refresh/Haste, now we're spamming Jolt/Verfire/Verthunder/Veraero/Verstone until we get the mana bar's permission to get into melee.

[Fyce]

You're mischaracterizing the OP's post. The OP is basically saying he wants the sword to see actual use in combat, hence "poking the enemy between spells". He said nothing about the auto-attacks being powerful.

I brought up the weak auto's to illustrate that by design the job is built to discourage melee when not 80/80. Which I feel is a problem when the job is supposed to be a sword & spell hybrid.

Hybrid doesn't mean having a strict 50/50% rate in using swordsman and caster skills.

Besides "poking inbetween skills" means that, if OP isn't asking for auto-attacks, then it means he wants one or two oGCD to weave inbetween spells. But that would make RDM a "Melee caster DPS", and completly turn the use of Corps-a-corps and Displacement around, almost making them useless.

Alistaire said to me that this was a Final Fantasy game. Well, all Final Fantasy games are different. For instance, Dualcast wasn't even part of the series for Red Mages before FFV. FFXIV's Red Mage is primarily a caster, jumping in for a devastating melee combo enhanced by black and white mana.

I get that some people may want more melee action from the RDM. But not everyone does.


-I will not answer the rest of the post as my answers would literally be "see above"-

[Tila]

It'd be neat I think if in the future they did get a sort of stance option, allowing to do more melee with casting rather than the more casting with melee.

[Jerbob]

I find it really dishonest that, when drawn, the weapon is a sword, but the moment combat actually starts, it's a staff. The job's entire aesthetic advertises something that it is completely incapable of delivering.

The producer explicitly said that Red Mage wasn't their first choice, and that they were considering alternatives like Sage and an "original job". There was also the very tired, very frustrating nonsense that somehow XIV is very special and thus requires all jobs to be "reinterpreted" (see SMN). It's fairly clear to me that they just used an alternative job concept but put a Red Mage glamour over the top. I can only assume they did it this way because Red Mage is iconic; the hype for it would surely drive sales far more than Sage. The actual product delivered clearly didn't matter much.

XIV's Red Mage needs to be a close-quarters melee, support, and nuking hybrid if it is to be faithful to the name Red Mage. I'm choosing my words very carefully, because in XIV "melee" can apparently mean this jumping-in nonsense. "White Magic" can apparently be 95% damage dealing spells. "Black Magic" apparently requires ranged combat with a staff. Red Mage doesn't subscribe to these paradigms. Ultimately, if XIV can't deliver a faithful reproduction of classic Red Mage then it shouldn't do Red Mage. For me, a dodgy copy is infinitely worse than having Red Mage at all.

I actually vastly prefer XI's rendition of Red Mage. Yes, it's very unfortunate that in groups I tend to be backline - that's not because I'm incapable of meleeing, it's just because I have to be very, very busy as Red Mage. If I'm in a party with other support, or where two players can share support roles, Red Mage in XI is perfectly capable of being a hybrid - and when it happens, it's immensely satisfying. I'm not saying XI's Red Mage doesn't have faults - the fact that support is so in demand biases the playerbase to using Red Mage in an exclusively support context more often than not - but at least I can. I don't think XIV's Red Mage is actually capable, even if the opportunity presents itself.

[Kuukii]

It'd be neat I think if in the future they did get a sort of stance option, allowing to do more melee with casting rather than the more casting with melee.

I was thinking exactly this the other day. Red mage should have a melee stance and a caster stance. Basically, caster stance use magic until mp gets low then swap to melee stance to continue to do damage while gaining mp back then swap back. You could have even have corp-a-corp automatically swap you to melee stance and displacement swap you to caster stance. No real thought into it but just an idea that they could have taken instead of the one we got.

[YanderePrincess]

Yeah, the current RDM is nothing short of a mockery. Hell, I'm pretty sure WHM and MNK got more love than RDM... the dev team spent too much time on "How can we make it flashy" and completely forgot to make it FUN.

I have to disagree completely. I'm finding Red Mage *lots* of fun. Just because it doesn't appeal to *you,* doesn't mean they forgot to make it fun. They just didn't make it exactly what your precious little snowflake mind wants it to be.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Spamming spells until an arbitrary gatekeeper gives me a pass to zoom into melee for 1-2-3 doesn't make a job fun, yet that's exactly what RDM is: A boringass wait in a queue until you are"permitted" to get to the actual fun part! It's like going to the candy store, only when you get there you arbitrarily have to run five laps before getting one treat! It's disgusting!

I will never understand people that insist sitting in the back line until your 80/80 queue pops and you can get to the actually fun part is enjoyable. I signed up on RDM to blend spell and steel, not to play a lazy BLM!