MNK 4.0 Changes . . . I'm not a fan tbh

[silentwindfr]

honestly....even dragoon is far harder than monk... then this reason don't hold.

[Blacktestament7]

Monk is down Touch of Death and Fracture (yes, we did use Fracture) and we didn't gain any new GCDs or damage dealing OGCDs. The changes to One Ilm Punch haven't made it something we'll use in our rotation ever so we've actually backslid significantly since 2.1 :/.

I'm not saying we haven't lost alot. I'm still holding hope that SE doesn't follow through with some of the removed moves like ToD (Phlebotomize/Mutiliate) personally but I'm sure we're just gonna have to eat that. And my count on moves weren't viability or necessary, just a pure how many buttons to push count. And even then I'm pretty sure I'm still wrong in thinking the mdps have the same skill/ability count. I'm thinking NIN and SAM have 2-3 more buttons than MNK and DRG.

Are you guys only counting moves that were native to the class and not borrowed weaponskills?

I was yes. I was only counting moves that were that class specific. So no cross-class like Fracture, Bloodbath, Mercy Stroke, e.t.c.

technically in gcd attack we use only 7 actively...
Arm of destroyer, one ilm punch and rockbreaker are situational and often not worth the use.

I'm really not seeing the issue with Rockbreaker. Don't get me wrong, AotD is garbage and no one will ever repeatedly use OTP even with the SB change. But Rockbreaker isn't "situational". It's the only feasible AOE the monk has that's not locked to a cooldown of 30s or 60s.

[silentwindfr]

it's extremely situational since it need to do 2 skill before use it... you can go and toss a arm of destroyer and behind a twin snake (since we have no aoe in raptor form).... means at best the rockbreaker have a 6 sec of cd... for the damage it deal and the cost of the tp.... do it worth it? clearly no...
honestly i don't think it worth to keep an aoe combo if it's not rework a bit... we need a raptor form aoe if they want to make it worth the usage... but honestly with the cost of tp... it's.... well messed up to use it. generally i think it's safer to deal as much damage to one target for reduce the number of enemy as fast as possible. reducing the pressure on the tank and healer.

instead to try to deal pea shooter damage, yes on the paper our dps is good, but if you look at the hp of the monster it's only a dent into them life... you deal more damage overall, but in terms of battle efficiency i still think it's safer to deal more damage to one target and reduce them number.

not we had this debate a long time ago about what was the better, do aoe or focus on one target at the time.

[Deithwen]

Rockbreaker is really usefull during big pulls. You can also do an Aoe burst with perfect balance which is extremely efficient on big pulls.

[DatPotato]

The burst thus far has only been useful in a2s *shudder*
after that ti was a potencial lost cause on boss you'd be stuck without PB for the opener

[Deithwen]

Raiding is not the only content in this game...

And Rockbreaker is a useful skill whenever you need to aoe, why would you remove that ?

[silentwindfr]

because in it form it's not worth the use. you have many number but on the long run it's not easily usable nor worth the cost in tp. like i have said it's situational and you prove it.
plus like prove it by the new info about sb, they don't want us to do big pull, they make every aoe get a nerf for we play differently.

like said the Rockbreaker is lacking another skill for be good, a raptor form aoe. what we don't have, either they add one, or strip it... in this form, it's a ssituational skill barely used.

plus i have told you, i think in a pull even a big pull, it's safer to focus for reduce the number of enemy and reduce the pressure on the tank and healer. because a large part of our dps...come from auto attack that are buffed to extrem by all the self buff we do have...
they focus on the skill for expect to get a maximum of dps is not the best way. yes, for short instant you get insane dps, but the monster will not die faster in the long run.

[Arcian]

because in it form it's not worth the use. you have many number but on the long run it's not easily usable nor worth the cost in tp. like i have said it's situational and you prove it.
plus like prove it by the new info about sb, they don't want us to do big pull, they make every aoe get a nerf for we play differently.

like said the Rockbreaker is lacking another skill for be good, a raptor form aoe. what we don't have, either they add one, or strip it... in this form, it's a ssituational skill barely used.

plus i have told you, i think in a pull even a big pull, it's safer to focus for reduce the number of enemy and reduce the pressure on the tank and healer. because a large part of our dps...come from auto attack that are buffed to extrem by all the self buff we do have...they focus on the skill for expect to get a maximum of dps is not the best way. yes, for short instant you get insane dps, but the monster will not die faster in the long run.

You aren't supposed to spam it on every rotation due to the tp cost, no. It is, however, our primary source of aoe dps that is not on a 30- or 60sec cd (although AotD is a dps gain on 6 or more mobs). One Ilm Punch's buff stripping is too situational to warrant wide use. Rockbreaker's aoe is not.

In a situation when you're dealing with a trash pack or an add phase, focusing on one mob is absolutely not safer and I have no idea where you got that from. Burning one down at a time leaves the rest alive and hitting everyone for longer, thus placing significantly more strain on both your tank and healer and the rest of the party's tp/mp. It's actively detrimental not to use aoe with 3+ mobs, because a dps gain is a dps gain.

tl;dr - You are entirely misinformed.

[Blacktestament7]

because in it form it's not worth the use. you have many number but on the long run it's not easily usable nor worth the cost in tp. like i have said it's situational and you prove it.
plus like prove it by the new info about sb, they don't want us to do big pull, they make every aoe get a nerf for we play differently.

like said the Rockbreaker is lacking another skill for be good, a raptor form aoe. what we don't have, either they add one, or strip it... in this form, it's a ssituational skill barely used.

plus i have told you, i think in a pull even a big pull, it's safer to focus for reduce the number of enemy and reduce the pressure on the tank and healer. because a large part of our dps...come from auto attack that are buffed to extrem by all the self buff we do have...
they focus on the skill for expect to get a maximum of dps is not the best way. yes, for short instant you get insane dps, but the monster will not die faster in the long run.

I understand that Rockbreaker is limited but it's not weak in the least. Again, it's exceptionally strong for an AoE weaponskill and where it's placed does two things, when you AoE you retain GL3 and you aren't consistently dropping TP to do AoE damage like literally every other physical dps class. It's 130 base pot + MNK buffs so there needs to be some level of balance. I've never lacked AoE damage since 3.0 launched and unlike some I've never PBed Rockbreaker or ever wasted TP doing AotD. Adding a raptor form AoE will literally just force the monk into dropping all it's TP into AoEs. I mean, even then I wouldn't unless the raptor form had Rock's damage or something. Because if it's as weak as AotD it's not gonna be used.

I'm confused as MNK (or any physical dps for that matter) AoE also doesn't have damage drop off. I didn't have a problem doing AoE damage prior to HW and Elixir Field just pushed me higher to a point where my damage was comparable to a BLM if the adds were set up right and I still didn't need to ever use PB or AotD. The only reason AotD is unviable is the 50 pot vs 120 TP. It'd need to do double that base pot to match Boot or DK on an AoE of 3 enemies or higher. For that cost, 6 or more is a requirement for the TP cost. And that ignores Bootshine's auto crit on positional. Rockbreaker doesn't have that problem, it's again true strike but on multiple targets. Not using it is non-efficient and just as much of a waste as repeatedly using Bootshine.

I mean, seriously. Rockbreaker's range isn't even that bad so I don't see how you're seeing it as worthless. And if I'm not mistaken, not a single AoE for MNK was nerfed in those translated tooltips. I think those were the only abilities that werent nerfed actually. I'm feeling less like there's a problem with Rockbreaker and more you're discounting it because it's combo based but honestly, it's almost comparable to Geirskogul if you take the MNK buffs into consideration, probably about 10 pot off and less range.

Sry, if this feels like a rant but I've had people tell me how MNKs AoE's been weak since I started playing this game and yet, I've literally never had a problem doing AoE damage as long as I ignored AotD and used Howling Fist smartly. Elixir field only made things better. Hell if you really want to burst damage in AoE you can throw IR and B4B (I know not anymore but before) and overtake most AoE's in the game with one Rock, EF, HF rotation. The amount of outgoing damage is Deathflare level.

EDIT: If Geirskogul is 220 pot and Rock is GL3 it's 57 potency off if my math is right.

[SpeckledBurd]

Raiding is not the only content in this game...

And Rockbreaker is a useful skill whenever you need to aoe, why would you remove that ?

It's not the only content in the game, but it is the only content that matters with regards to Job balance. Nothing else really requires the full suite of abilities in Job's kit to be used to clear it frankly.

That said, Rockbreaker is a great AOE skill, even if it's third in a combo it's still fantastic. It's functionally a 190 potency skill after all buffs are accounted for with no damage drop off. Compare Fire II, which does less damage per cast. Sure it isn't spammable, but that doesn't make it any less amazing for sustaining your AOE over an entire dungeon.